Cash Tour 2012

[MintTrav]

So the highest winners from the first round go into the second round, several of them then lose chips (maybe everything) and end up worse off than some of those knocked out in the first round.

What about banking a certain amount of the first round winnings?

[dwh103]

Seems rather complex - I"d still give it a go though.

My main feeling is that I think mimicking the Big Game or Loose Cannon would be preferable.

[NoCash]

Would the casino"s standard cash chips be used? Quite easy for someone dishonest to add a the odd pony to the stack when no one is looking.

[Santino67]

the more I think about this, and having read all the feedback so far..... this doesn"t feel like a cash game at all - it would appear to be just a tournament by another name, with most of the usual tournament dynamics, but far more heavily taxed than any tournament I ever play in.  The grinder pot would make such a huge influence that it turns the "final table" into a winner takes all STT.

^^ this

In addition, this could turn out to be more expensive than the main event, which I find quite bizarre. For many players the Sunday is for a different side event, and/or playing the casino cash games. This is a cash/tourney fusion, which unlike other cash games could lead to you being busted out after 3 hours or less, with no chance to break even again or make profit. At the stakes being suggested and with a possible reload, I don"t believe there"s enough incentive for anyone other than the winner.

I do though, love the thinking outside the box  

[Delboy]

So the highest winners from the first round go into the second round, several of them then lose chips (maybe everything) and end up worse off than some of those knocked out in the first round.

What about banking a certain amount of the first round winnings?

No weeding aloud, they either quit with the lot or continue with the lot. besides the binds will be higher so you probably need bigger stacks.

Des, are you able to rebuy in Phase 2

[MintTrav]

So the highest winners from the first round go into the second round, several of them then lose chips (maybe everything) and end up worse off than some of those knocked out in the first round.

What about banking a certain amount of the first round winnings?

No weeding aloud, they either quit with the lot or continue with the lot. besides the binds will be higher so you probably need bigger stacks.

Des, are you able to rebuy in Phase 2

If the stacks remained similar to the first round, then so would the blinds, obv.

[JStarkey]

Personally I hate the concept. If I wanted to spend my sunday playing cashgames I could stay at home and grind it down my local where I"m not capped to a 100BB buyin, and where I know the game is profitable. Will the Casino not have cash games running simultaniously on the sunday anyway?

[Bainn]

Now this, re OP is a very interesting idea, may it prove popular and continue through 2012.

[AJDUK]

I don"t like this idea at all. I also don"t like the idea of APAT ever being targetted at "higher end cash players". The first A in APAT stands for "Amateur". To me that means recreational. Take all APAT branding off it IMO.
Per the OP this is pretty pricey (for APAT) at potentially £112.50 + raked pots. The dynamic feels very "gambly".
I (well we) were priced out of Manchester by the increased buy-in at both ME and side event. The APAT direction is all pretty worrying.
I appreciate that new ideas are always good but alas we"ll be watching with interest from the sidelines. GL.

[ian.ski309]

As far as this forum goes I try to adopt the concept of "if you can"t say something nice then don"t say anything at all"... but I must depart from the norm here and say that I hate this as I suspect that it will only appeal to a minority of APATers.

I understand and applaud the notion of APAT constantly seeking to improve and raise the bar, but I think this is innovation for innovation"s sake. No offence intended, just my tuppence worth.

[Marty719]

I think its potentially very interesting as a concept, but not very appealing as it is set up at the minute. 

-I think buy-in shud be 200x. 
-I think many of the players this is targeted at would be more +EV playing the regular cash games with deeper stacks and more recreational players.
-I think that overall chip counts should be taken into account rather than table by table.
-I think set rules shud be put in place b4 anything kicks off regarding straddles, etc, as if not some tables will naturally play bigger than other.
-I think a large list of alts would need to be noted down so as player rotation would be kept to a minimum.


This all obv just came off the top of my mind, so havent really thot it thru in details - just general rambling obv

On a plus side, I love that APAT are pushing the boundaries in things like this.  Many people are talking about this being unaffordable, but imo APAT are absolutely correct to run events like this, or occasional tournaments with higher buy-ins.  The classic tournament set-up will still be there for the regs, but the new tournaments will bring a new player base to APAT which is always good.  

[Robbiebox]

I remember a local live tourney that ran a shootout format in the early days (before many had a clue), but the shootout 1st rd was timed. It created a farcical situation where in the last hand everyone on the table had to go all-in, including the chipleader as he would be surpassed by the pot winner. The only way a chipleader could avoid the last hand mayem was to have more than half the chips on the table.

I can see this cash game idea going exactly the same way (whether it be top 2/table or top 10 overall), in fact i cant see it going any other way. The final table would be exactly the same as well, turning it into the biggest donkfest APAT has ever run.

As many have said, new ideas are great, but I have tried to think of a way that this could work effectively but just cant come to any idea to avoid the innevitable last hands mayem.

[PantsMan]

I think it"s an interesting concept but not really sure if it will work or not. I appreciate the idea of trying something new.

The biggest negative for me personally is something Marty just touched on :

"I think many of the players this is targeted at would be more +EV playing the regular cash games with deeper stacks and more recreational players."

This was my first thought. When I play cash at APAT events I do so because they"re held at the weekend and the cash tables in the casinos are very soft. I"ve made a lot of money this season playing them and although I generally play the side events i"m not sure I would with this one simply because I play cash much more for making money than I do the side events. I make a point of avoiding the cash tables filled with APAT players, why play against decent players when you can find a table with a rich fish, a couple of chinese gamblers, a couple of drunk teenagers and Ger (ok, i don"t avoid all APAT players).  

Given the chance to win £200-£500 playing on one of these tables (sums i"ve taken at a few APATs this season) or playing a cash game against decent players with a possibility of winning £500 but only if I beat 49 or more of said players it"s hard to see the appeal of the latter.

But i"ll probably play anyway.  

[kinboshi]

I like the idea that APAT is being innovative (as per usual), but not sure that the format would attract cash players, or if the proposed format wouldn"t just end up a huge luckfest as Robbiebox pointed out.

With 100BBs, very soon a lot of players are going to be down to 70 or 80BBs - a horrible stack to play cash with.  Will these players be allowed to reload their additional one-stack in chunks, or will they have to do it in one go?

The nature of cash is to play "correctly" on each hand, and if there"s a 50/50 spot it"s normally a good spot to get all your money in as the additional money in the pot will give you good odds to do so.  But in this proposed "cash tournament" it"s encouraging people to play differently and this takes away from the idea of it being a cash game.  It"s just a tournament with one re-buy and without the blinds increasing.  So the victors are going to be the ones who win the most coolers in most probability.

Love the idea of some sort of APAT cash game - but not sure this is the best solution.

A possible idea is to have a .25/.50 or .5/1 cash game where players clock in and out and those with the best hourly rate have done the best (with possibly a "bonus" added to their rate the more time they put in, this will help prevent someone doubling up in the first few minutes and then leaving the table from having the best rate).  There"s be a max buy-in, but players can reload at any time (the amount they reload will need to be recorded).

This would work more like a standard cash game, although there"ll be some time-constraints on the players, but that"s inevitable.

[Marty719]

Just get a tv table cash game gng at wcoap of APAT players and stream it online imo.  Award the person with most profit at the end a token trophy/medal/gold-star.

#nameinhat