Author Topic: Live - how do you play JJ...  (Read 6376 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

pokerpops

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1225
Live - how do you play JJ...
« on: February 27, 2012, 12:50:13 PM »
Live £75 FO, with added £25 Bounty
30 runners
Starting stack 10000
Blinds 50/100 about an hour into tournament

Villain is to my immediate left. He arrived a little late but has been very active - raising pre, hasn"t limped yet, c-bets and when that doesn"t work he"s fired the turn too, and if necessary, the river.
Only been to showdown once when he called a river bet on a flushy/straighty board with A9 and won, beating the better"s A8..

I"ve raised a few times too, and he"s commented on my propensity to raise the cut-off on his button. I assured him I wasn"t doing it light.

STacks
Me - 9200
Villain - 14,700

One limper to me in SB I raise  Jh Jd to 300 (there are no 25 chips in play so it"s 250 or 300 here
Villain 3bets to 950
Folds to me
I 4bet to 1800 and after huge thoughts villain flats

Flop -  Ah 6h 4h

I bet 3100

Villain thinks for maybe 5 seconds and moves his chipstack over the line

??
Just an old bloke living the dream

Proud to be an APAT Forum Team member 2013
Prouder still of being part of the Raise for Jack team, Silver medalists 2019

Paulie_D

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6420
  • Travel Guru
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 12:59:00 PM »
You"ve already got half your chips in the pit.....you must have had a plan...no!?

As played, you have to call.
“Thor has Mjolnir but I have a banhammer. I think I win”

deanp27

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 14:01:48 PM »
Raise/4bet slightly more pre.

As played bet/folding so big is the nut worst line I think. I probably check and decide what to do if he bets
Looking forward to making my first day 2

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 14:17:56 PM »
If you"re turning your hand into a bluff, your c-bet was way too big..... you"ve left no room to fold, and the call is pretty much mandatory.  You have 4300 left behind, and there is 9950 in the middle.

No problem with your preflop play or your bet/raise sizing.....  If he 5bets (which he probably will with hands that beat you), you can easily fold.  If he folds, you gain table image.  If he calls, he is generally doing so with a worse hand than you, and  even though your are out of position, you have the impetus in the hand.

When it comes to the flop, there is 3750 in the middle. Once you"ve c-bet, it"s unlikely that he shoves anything that you can beat.... by c-betting say 1500, you find out the same info as you do when you bet 3100 - the difference being that you can still fold.  

Put yourself in his shoes, and imagine how strong your play would look if you 4b pre OOP, then make a c-bet of only a third of the pot on an Ace high flushed board - it makes it a tough move for him to bluff.

Given that you have committed yourself with the c-bet size, he should know that you are committed to call if he shoves, hence he"s only ever doing it with a hand that has you beat..... so, it"s pretty certain now that you are beat, but you are totally pot committed.  I think you have to call and pray that hearts are live for you.








George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 17:01:45 PM »
Do not 4 bet fold. Either call the 3 bet or 4 bet bigger oop.
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

ronaldo07

  • Silver Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 17:14:03 PM »
Like the 4 bet pre I might make it a bit moe maybe 2200.  If u think he is gunna get bluffy then check shove flop if he bets. If he checks back u are keeping the pot small. Really don"t like the 3100. As played it"s a tough spot but I"d kick myself n call
Team GNF member Bronze medal S4
Team GNF member GOLD S5

Tiger-flash

  • Regional Captain
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 462
  • East Midlands capt
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 17:57:27 PM »
Your priced in so you have to call, i would of flat called and not re raised as its obvious that your losing to an ace or a higher heart flush draw with a queen or king. Pray and hope my friend
Apat Notts player of the season, season 5
Brookfield pub Redtooth champion
Darly Abbey pub champion

pokerpops

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1225
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 07:07:33 AM »
Ok, I was villain here,  Ac Qc

3 bet to win pot, when he 4bet I opted to flat and see a flop.

That flop"s pretty scary but from previous comments he 100% doesn"t have an A, let alone two of them.
He doesn"t have a made flush either obviously.

Thoughts on my shove over his committing flop bet?
Just an old bloke living the dream

Proud to be an APAT Forum Team member 2013
Prouder still of being part of the Raise for Jack team, Silver medalists 2019

Swinebag

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4033
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 07:42:38 AM »

Ok, I was villain here,  Ac Qc

3 bet to win pot, when he 4bet I opted to flat and see a flop.

That flop"s pretty scary but from previous comments he 100% doesn"t have an A, let alone two of them.
He doesn"t have a made flush either obviously.

Thoughts on my shove over his committing flop bet?


Flatting the 4 bet OOP is pretty spewy just to hit an A or a Q that may or may not be ahead.

Can"t decide which posts suggest that the villain 100% doesn"t have an A, though you are right that he most likely hasn"t flopped a flush.

your shove is fine as there is a great chance you are ahead, but JJ is definitely calling now so good luck with the fade...
Quote from: Chipaccrual
Rob, you are a genius.
Quote from: jacklevel06
You are a genius Rob  :D

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 07:51:47 AM »
You don"t think the other guy might c-bet large with AK, looking to protect his holding if he doesn"t have a heart?

Flatting a 4b pre for such a large percentage of stack with AQ is spewy in the least.

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 07:56:02 AM »
 JdFlat pre ainec
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

deanp27

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 07:58:31 AM »
Quote from: George2Loose link=topic=10 Qc617.msg172398#msg172398 date=1330415762

Flat pre ainec


Yep
Looking forward to making my first day 2

pokerpops

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1225
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 10:05:27 AM »
From the conversation at the table I was pretty sure that he was 4betting with a pair rather than a big A, and even if it was a big A it would be suited, ergo, no flush.

I was, until this hand, chip leader at the table and calling the 4bet committed less than 10% of my stack with potential to either have the best hand postflop, or win the pot in position with a c-bet.

I agree - he has to call the shove as played. I think he kicks himself all the way to the cash tables if he misses though.

I wasn"t impressed with his playing of the hand - but I"m biassed because obviously the  3h arrived on the turn.
Just an old bloke living the dream

Proud to be an APAT Forum Team member 2013
Prouder still of being part of the Raise for Jack team, Silver medalists 2019

ian.ski309

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 977
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 11:18:42 AM »
It"s probably about time this got another airing, and in case you missed it the first time around...

[youtube=425,350] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP9CBtSW0kA [/youtube]
APAT European Team Championships 2009 - Gold Medal


"The gambling known as business looks with austere disfavor upon the business known as gambling." - Ambrose Pierce

Swinebag

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4033
Re: Live - how do you play JJ...
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012, 12:52:25 PM »
His play wasn"t that bad-certainly not compared to yours pre :)

Would be interested in the dialogue/tell that led you to believe he had a pair and no ace. I have zero powers in this respect so would appreciate knowing
Quote from: Chipaccrual
Rob, you are a genius.
Quote from: jacklevel06
You are a genius Rob  :D