Maximising without losing your customer?

[Santino67]

Hi gang

Enjoying reading Steve"s AK hand recently and the different thoughts so decided I"d post this to get your ideas about how best to play......and any comments about my own. It"s a Zoom table so only really have reads on regulars (not involved in this). I"ll post a bit at a time to get your views. Cheers, Grant

PokerStars Zoom Hand #79962048887:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2012/05/05 15:12:12 ET
Table "Hartley" 9-max
Seat 1: Diego1469 ($6.68 in chips)
Seat 2: zjost1974 ($11.48 in chips)
Seat 3: deepblue0000 ($3.30 in chips)
Seat 4: SantinoAPAT ($16.52 in chips)
Seat 5: FG_Thompy ($62.65 in chips)
Seat 6: slava7611 ($16.27 in chips)
Seat 7: Dann_zfr ($5.77 in chips)
Seat 8: Alexandr27 ($3.98 in chips)
Seat 9: Domi691 ($10.15 in chips)
zjost1974: posts small blind $0.05
deepblue0000: posts big blind $0.10

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SantinoAPAT [  ]
SantinoAPAT: raises $0.20 to $0.30
FG_Thompy: folds
slava7611: calls $0.30
Dann_zfr: folds
Alexandr27: folds
Domi691: calls $0.30
Diego1469: folds
zjost1974: folds
deepblue0000: calls $0.20

*** FLOP *** [ ]
deepblue0000: checks
SantinoAPAT: bets $0.50
slava7611: raises $1 to $1.50
Domi691: folds
deepblue0000: folds
SantinoAPAT: calls $1

Right play? What"s your thoughts?

[Paulie_D]

I see nothing wrong so far.

I don"t play the Zoom tables but at worst you"re up against another flush or a flopped set.

At the end of the day, the only thing you need to be in any way worried about is the board pairing.

The turn will decide how to proceed although another diamond on the turn will probably kill your action.

I think you have to play this as pretty standard and either check the turn and let him make the running or lead out with something that looks tentative or a blocker bet.

[noble1]

at these stakes Grant imho given his action and the lack of info [its ZOOM ]  3bet the flop if he only calls, get it in on non pairing turns.... if the turn pairs then heyho chk fold if he shovels the rest of his money in :"(

2.75x his flop rr and overbet jam the turn or 3.5x+ and play it straight forward... weak players wont be able to let go of a set here or a lower flush, as he has possibly more set combo"s than 2diamond combos i cant see the majority of 10nl players getting away from either hand in this spot...

u play more zoom than myself, if u think that there is a insane large amount of bluff raising on monotone flops at 10nl or u have a read on villain, then calling his 2bet a certain % of the time is ok... long term +ev wise i think playing it fast will net u the better return...

[Swinebag]

On a zoom table, just play straightforward. I"d reraise to $4ish.

The hands in his range that could benefit you by smoothing are his drawing hands and bluffs. Other hands such as sets/made flushes will lose you value on a lot of turns. Without reads, I"d just assume villain is strong and will pay you off.

If he calls the flop then raises turn on a paired board, you can fold as he"d be calling down his weaker flushes by now.

[AAroddersAA]

Yay - Grant and me are inventing a new way of posting hands*.

Anyway, preflop is totally fine obviously. I personally do a 4x from UTG here but I think 3x is just as good (possibly better). We do end up 4 way though which I would want to discourage with this hand. If it had folded to me on the button I probably 3x as I am not likely to go multi-way. I think this is a minor point though.

When you flop the nuts it"s always nice to bet out multiway as you have a great chance of getting action. Helpfully our opponent who has a nice amount of money behind raises us. Now is when I start trying to put him on a proper range.

He probably does not have 2 pair on this board. A set of Jacks is not that likely as JJ would 3-bet pre more often than not. Small sets 33 and 55 are possible. A pair with a flushdraw is also possible. So a very rough range for him:-

Set of twos or fours
KdJx type hand
Smaller flush
Top pair type hand
Total Bluff

Sets probably come along if we reraise and so do little flushes. We are probably going to get little flushes to stack off to us anyway though on the turn if the board does not pair. A flush draw should fold if we repump but might not. Top pair hands and bluffs will fold. Another important point is we are going to have to speak first on the turn anyway. If the turn is safe nothing has really changed are we going to bet on the turn (in which case we might as well raise the flop imo) or are we going to check and risk giving him a free card, this can work against the right type of opponent. Here there is FAR more value in stacking the big hands than getting a few more blinds from hads like top pair and bluffs.

I would 3-bet to £4 on the flop, if he calls I now have a big enough pot to bet about £6 on the turn and shove the river as well.

*Based on Original Concept by Paulie_D Esq - MBE PFR OTB

[deanp27]

bet a couple of clicks more on the flop to start with and 3bet pretty small when he raises you

[Santino67]

Thanks for opinions guy, and especially the thoughts behind them, very much appreciated. The re-raise on flop was obviously in my mind but would it have looked too strong? Was screaming for another diamond to drop, especially if he had something like , but was also considering he had a small set so was happy enough to control the pot. Zoom makes it that bit more awkward coz I"m unsure how the villain is gonna progress.

*** TURN *** []
SantinoAPAT: bets $1.80
slava7611: calls $1.80

Thoughts on this? Bet size? Check & hope for a bet?

Cheers
Grant

lol, just saw that Steve, very good  
*Based on Original Concept by Paulie_D Esq - MBE PFR OTB

[AAroddersAA]

Thanks for opinions guy, and especially the thoughts behind them, very much appreciated. The re-raise on flop was obviously in my mind but would it have looked too strong? Was screaming for another diamond to drop, especially if he had something like , but was also considering he had a small set so was happy enough to control the pot. Zoom makes it that bit more awkward coz I"m unsure how the villain is gonna progress.

*** TURN *** []
SantinoAPAT: bets $1.80
slava7611: calls $1.80

Thoughts on this? Bet size? Check & hope for a bet?

Cheers
Grant

lol, just saw that Steve, very good  
*Based on Original Concept by Paulie_D Esq - MBE PFR OTB

As played it seems fine. I would have made it $1.95 but neither here nor there. You want the flush draw calling so giving them the odds to do so is fine.

I now do think he has some kind of draw, a small set is not supposed to be that scared on the turn and should be trying to price out hands so should raise. He may have a pair with his draw of course. You should pretty much be betting the turn whatever here and the size is fine.

What to do if raised is a good question though.

[Fatcatstu]

I am raising as much as possible after the flop. Litterally every given chance.

We want to get the pot built up as much as possible,  and i dont think at this stakes that anyone is going to be folding any time soon after raising you on the flop. Keep pumping money in until there is no more to put in :p

[Santino67]

I am raising as much as possible after the flop. Litterally every given chance.

We want to get the pot built up as much as possible,  and i dont think at this stakes that anyone is going to be folding any time soon after raising you on the flop. Keep pumping money in until there is no more to put in :p

Stu with $4.25 in pot, I bet 1.80 which he called above. How much would you have bet?

[AAroddersAA]

I am raising as much as possible after the flop. Litterally every given chance.

We want to get the pot built up as much as possible,  and i dont think at this stakes that anyone is going to be folding any time soon after raising you on the flop. Keep pumping money in until there is no more to put in :p

I read this type of thing a lot and to be honest disagree. If we were talking about a live game at 50p/£1 or less I would say you are likely to be right however the standard online is much higher. He could easily raise the flop then regcognise the great strength we seem to display by calling then leading the turn into a raise. He may well be good enough to fold a type hand here. Zoom is a bit spewy I grant you but I still think you have to give the modern day Pokerstars micro limit games more credit than this. It used to be true but it is not any more.

The second part of your comment about continuing to pump the pot I agree with though. I would be doing it on the flop though, think Grants bet is fine on the turn, it keeps draws interested. I would not mind a bigger bet either.

[Fatcatstu]

I am raising as much as possible after the flop. Litterally every given chance.

We want to get the pot built up as much as possible,  and i dont think at this stakes that anyone is going to be folding any time soon after raising you on the flop. Keep pumping money in until there is no more to put in :p

Stu with $4.25 in pot, I bet 1.80 which he called above. How much would you have bet?

$3, but then i tend to bet bigger, live or online, than most do. I dont mind 1.80, like i say, i just want to get more money in the pot. If he is going to re raise you, then you will be looking at prob around the 6-7 $ mark i would have thought, which i like the sound of more than 4 :p

Like i say, i want as much money in this pot as possible, as early as possible.

But im a **** cash player, as i have no doubt just highlighted.

[noble1]

as played Grant - [i still prefer 3bet flop ]


Flop
we bet then call a re-raise so villains range is going to be mostly strong-weak on the turn. [the weak part maybe hands he was waiting to see a safe turn card with, a hand that he can bluff catch with but will/met fold to more action]. i assume that he would re-raise his strong made hands on the flop plus weak/bluffs.

Turn
i would personally prefer to get value from the range of villains hands that he was looking to get a safe turn card with, this would be much better than trying to get calls from the weak bluff catchers in his range that you might convince to call again... bet more on the turn as played......