Author Topic: Hand from APAT Cardiff - Heavily discussed in first break. Play along.  (Read 4601 times)

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poker_jason

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Hand set up: 50/100, SB ~12K, UTG+1 ~15K & MP+2 ~17K

PF - UTG+1 calls 100, MP2 Calls 100, SB Raise 400, UTG+1 Calls 400, MP2 Calls 400.

Pot: 1300. Flop 722 Rainbow.

SB bets  400, UTG+1 calls, MP2 raises to 1600.
SB re-raises to 3750, UTG+1 Calls, MP2 Shoves for 17K

What does SB, UTG+1 and MP2 have?

What doea SB & UTG+1 do - any why?

This hand involved 2 very well known respected APATers and myself....

Bonus points if you figure out which player I am.

Images are not very established between all players - 2 players do know each other very well.

Part 2 to follow after a few responses.

Santino67

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Have a stab at fold, unless you have 7/7  ;)

SB has JJ/QQ (your hand?), UTG+1 has AQsuited, MP2 has A2suited but I"m probably miles away
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poker_jason

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Close - SB (KK) Folds, UTG+1 has A2.....

You are now UTG+1 - Call or Fold?


AAroddersAA

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Well that"s just weird.

UTG and UTG+1 that both limp EP. Then they both flat a raise.

There is no way they should have a premium hand (so take out AA, KK and QQ) They could have a pair which makes most sense or maybe some sort of connected cards. Two broadway cards is also possible in one of these. SB is supposed to have a good hand, if he is trying to steal the limps then the bet is too small and it does not fell like a spot to do that. He could have a pair, probably 88+ or two big cards. May be even SC although I would not like the play. To be honest with the sizing it feels like a premium hand or AK.

Flop looks dry to me I am assuming no flush draw not that it really should matter. The SB bets out weak (which usually means weak). UTG+1 makes the call so I don"t think he has that great of a hand either (at this point). MP2 can raise pretty light here in theory but I doubt many people do, the raise COULD be a squeeze but I am more inclined to think he has an overpair, TT or JJ, or a full house (77). He should not have many twos in his range though.

The SB then decides he wants to play and makes a proper raise, so I am now putting him on an overpair. UTG+1 calls again? This is again weird and I am staring to think he might have 22 or 77 as they about the only hands that make sense with this line. How long did it take to make the call?

UTG+1 keeps calling and should have a monster, looks like he should have 77 or 22 but could have a hand like A2s I guess. These do kind of fit with his preflop play.

MP2 shoves?

Has he overplayed the overpair? A bare 2 should not shove here as you should not get called when you are ahead too often given the action, 77?

What do they have? Well the action makes no sense at all but the best guess for hand ranges

SB Has a big pair most likely but could have 77 (or A2s but that is less likely imo).

UTG+1 has 77, 22 or A2

Not enough info to say what MP2 has but it looks huge as well. To be honest it also looks like 77 or a 2.

So imo - The small blind could have just a big overpair but could be stronger as well due to action.
MP2 - either has a 2 (somehow) or 77
UTG+1 - Has 77 or 22 as they are the only hands that make sense

So, SB should fold and UTG+1 should call and be ahead most of the time. Calling range here (which is all we actually need to get right) should be:-

A2 (questionable) as you beat all other 2"s (all other 2"s that have somehow got to this stage should fold as they should be crushed and you only lose to 77)
77 and 22 obv

Trying to guess the actual hands is pointless and actually counter productive as it is almost always impossible to do and is just lucky if you get it right, you should always be putting your opponents on a range of hands (imo of course). If I have to guess though:-

SB has AA
UTG+1 has 22
MP2 has 77

I really doubt the above it right as it would not be worth posting the hand and would definitely have made Tighty"s updates.
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AAroddersAA

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Close - SB (KK) Folds, UTG+1 has A2.....

You are now UTG+1 - Call or Fold?



Sign result gets posted two minutes before I finish the above post, anyway as above, its a call. You are going to get shown 77 quite a bit but not often enough to make it a fold imo.
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Santino67

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Close - SB (KK) Folds, UTG+1 has A2.....

You are now UTG+1 - Call or Fold?



Sign result gets posted two minutes before I finish the above post, anyway as above, its a call. You are going to get shown 77 quite a bit but not often enough to make it a fold imo.


I"m not shoving here with 77 tbh but it is a possibility. I"m still calling FWIW. I had a similar situation against Harry Briggs and Darren Shallis in WCOAP last year in 1st level with A4 spades on 4/4/7 flop. Darren bet, i raised and when Harry shoved, Darren folded. I called him, Harry had KK and went out with no more help.
APAT Scottish Amateur Champion 2011 :~)
APAT Online North America PLO Champion 2011
Chipaccrual's Big APAT Christmas End Of Year Quiz Champion 2011
2012 Scottish Captain @ ECOAP
APAT Online Irish PLO Champion 2013
APAT Online Scottish Champion 2017

AAroddersAA

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Close - SB (KK) Folds, UTG+1 has A2.....

You are now UTG+1 - Call or Fold?



Sign result gets posted two minutes before I finish the above post, anyway as above, its a call. You are going to get shown 77 quite a bit but not often enough to make it a fold imo.


I"m not shoving here with 77 tbh but it is a possibility. I"m still calling FWIW. I had a similar situation against Harry Briggs and Darren Shallis in WCOAP last year in 1st level with A4 spades on 4/4/7 flop. Darren bet, i raised and when Harry shoved, Darren folded. I called him, Harry had KK and went out with no more help.

As a side note. I agree with not shoving 77 in MP2 as we have position. If we were acting first on the turn then I would be shoving it. This make it more of a call imo but not everybody would think about it like this and you will see 77 a fair bit of the time. Pretty sure calling is still very +EV though.
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poker_jason

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Rodders Analysis is pretty much spot. Thanks for posting. UTG+1 folded.

The break discussion was should UTG+1 call and did MP2 have 77.

The 2 views being if MP2 has 77 they would call instead shoving.

Now if your MP2 and you have 77 do you shove or call the four-bet?

What is the reasoning behind shove/call?


Santino67

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Rodders Analysis is pretty much spot. Thanks for posting. UTG+1 folded.

The break discussion was should UTG+1 call and did MP2 have 77.

The 2 views being if MP2 has 77 they would call instead shoving.

Now if your MP2 and you have 77 do you shove or call the four-bet?

What is the reasoning behind shove/call?




77 monster hand in that spot, flat calling even against 2 opponents leaves them drawing really thin and any bet from either of them on turn will result in the chips going in. If you"re outdrawn with 7/7 in that spot it would be pretty sick and lick the wounds time.
APAT Scottish Amateur Champion 2011 :~)
APAT Online North America PLO Champion 2011
Chipaccrual's Big APAT Christmas End Of Year Quiz Champion 2011
2012 Scottish Captain @ ECOAP
APAT Online Irish PLO Champion 2013
APAT Online Scottish Champion 2017

Swinebag

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Owston with 72 again?!!
Quote from: Chipaccrual
Rob, you are a genius.
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You are a genius Rob  :D

AAroddersAA

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I might shove, I might call depending on how I was feeling on the day mostly :-)

The reason to shove with 77 is that it really looks like somebody has a two and a two would not be folding here usually. I do think calling and seeing if somebody bets the turns and if not doing so yourself is a better play as it allows you to use position to your advantage, but shoving is not bad either.

I think when you call this with A2 you see 77 more than any other hand, maybe as much as half the time but it"s still a call.

Good thread btw.
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WYoung83

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jeez give us a chance please. you told answer within 1 hour of posting lol. Let it ride for a few days.