APAT Staking Exchange - Discussion

[Paulie_D]

Des has already put a reply up along the lines of:

"To answer the above questions on the APAT percentage.  APAT should receive 1% of the money won by the stakers, paid by the licensed player."

The only issue is the definition of "paid by the licensed player".

Either it means (a) paid in it"s entirety by the horse OR (b) just paid on behalf of all parties.

It makes no difference as far as APAT is concerned but it might to the stakers.

Example:

Player A requests buyers into a £1000 comp but wants to sell off 50%

Players B & C split that...so the investments are:

A - £500
B - £250
C - £250.

Player A cashes for £2000

Return would be £1000 (assuming no stakeback)

Normal split would be:

A - £1000
B - £500
C - £500

However, 1% of staker profit (£5) is to go to APAT paid by Player A

Thus it"s either:

APAT - £5
A - £995
B - £500
C - £500

or

APAT - £5
A - £997.50
B - £498.75
C - £498.75

Small sums I know but it"s best to be clear...no?

Des?

[Des]

I got tired just reading the opening few sentences of that Paulie.

The responsibility for paying the APAT fee sits with the Licensed Player.  In addition to returning winnings to his/her Stakers, the licensed player should also return "1% of the total returned to the Stakers", to APAT, via our PayPal account - staker@apat.com.

[Paulie_D]

So Option A then.

[PHIL_TC]

So Option A then.

Don"t think so, I read it as this Paulie...

Split would be (using your example)

A - £1000
B - £500
C - £500

plus on top the "horse" pays £5 £10 to APAT

*edit unless the horse is "A" then I think your option A is right* x

[AJDUK]

I thought "1% of the total returned to stakers", i.e. for Paulie"s example 1% x (£500+£500) = £10?

Or at least it was when I was at school. Bring back O levels I say!

[SirPercival]

Paulie, you say "profit" but Des has said "winnings".

In Marks example he never made any profit as the winnings were less than the overall stake.

[AJDUK]

The responsibility for paying the APAT fee sits with the Licensed Player.  In addition to returning winnings to his/her Stakers, the licensed player should also return "1% of the total returned to the Stakers", to APAT, via our PayPal account - staker@apat.com.

My issue here is with the definition of winnings. If the stakers don"t make a profit they haven"t won anything. In that case I don"t think APAT should receive anything.

[AJDUK]

The responsibility for paying the APAT fee sits with the Licensed Player.  In addition to returning winnings to his/her Stakers, the licensed player should also return "1% of the total returned to the Stakers", to APAT, via our PayPal account - staker@apat.com.

My issue here is with the definition of winnings. If the stakers don"t make a profit they haven"t won anything. In that case I don"t think APAT should receive anything.

Of course, there are also scenarios where the stakers may lose but the horse wins e.g. a 100% deal with no stakeback, where the total returns are less than the total stake.

[Chipaccrual]

"Licensed Player":  Players who have sought and received APAT's approval to utilise the Staking Exchange to seek Staking.  Licensed Players will be required to pay APAT a one off £10 license fee and 1% of the total value won by Stakers.

Nothing to do with profit.

In addition to returning any winnings to the stakers, 1% of those winnings will be paid to APAT via the APAT paypal account.

Here"s an example, and you don"t need A, B & C, so as to keep it simple.


Stakee has 50% of the action
Stakers has 50% of the action

Stakee wins £1000

Returns £500 to the stakers
Returns £5 (1% of the stakers return) to APAT
Keeps £495 for themselves


To summarise this prior to the staking taking place would be :-

Stakers 50%
Stakee 49.5%
APAT 0.5%

APAT's percentage in these terms will vary depending on how much of their action the stakee in giving up.  For example

Stakers 80%
Stakee 19.2%
APAT 0.8%

or

Stakers 30%
Stakee 69.7%
APAT 0.3%

[AJDUK]

"Licensed Player":  Players who have sought and received APAT's approval to utilise the Staking Exchange to seek Staking.  Licensed Players will be required to pay APAT a one off £10 license fee and 1% of the total value won by Stakers.

Nothing to do with profit.

Then change it to "1% of the total value returned to Stakers, paid from the Players" returns by the Player" or similar.

"won" and "winnings" are the wrong words and create confusion.  

[SirPercival]

Glad to see the OP in my request is in line with the accountants.  

No Jimmy Carr style dodge from me.  

[deanp27]

Pretty sure this was all answered a few weeks ago when i posed the same question. Seems pretty simple to me, stakers get back returns as advertised in the request, stakee pays 1% of any returns to APAT as a fee.

It has nothing to do with profit

[AJDUK]

Pretty sure this was all answered a few weeks ago when i posed the same question. Seems pretty simple to me, stakers get back returns as advertised in the request, stakee pays 1% of any returns to APAT as a fee.

It has nothing to do with profit

True, but the Staker Exchange - Rules & Definitions thread still contains the following:

"Licensed Player":  Players who have sought and received APAT's approval to utilise the Staking Exchange to seek Staking.  Licensed Players will be required to pay APAT a one off £10 license fee and 1% of the total value won by Stakers.

(I can"t quote it because it"s a non-reply thread)

Whilst the word "Won" remains in this definition, confusion will continue. "Returns" is a better word.

Q+A gets buried in threads. But once a Q is A"d, then the definition post should be updated/clarified so that the same Q doesn"t get asked again

[mporter123]

Can we include a minimum that the 1% of Stakers returns covers? I.e. £5

Alternatively can I keep a tab running and ship back when we get to £5?

Shipping 20p to APAT once a week seems a waste of time. I guess I could just win...

[Des]

Pretty sure this was all answered a few weeks ago when i posed the same question. Seems pretty simple to me, stakers get back returns as advertised in the request, stakee pays 1% of any returns to APAT as a fee.

It has nothing to do with profit

True, but the Staker Exchange - Rules & Definitions thread still contains the following:

"Licensed Player":  Players who have sought and received APAT's approval to utilise the Staking Exchange to seek Staking.  Licensed Players will be required to pay APAT a one off £10 license fee and 1% of the total value won by Stakers.

(I can"t quote it because it"s a non-reply thread)

Whilst the word "Won" remains in this definition, confusion will continue. "Returns" is a better word.

Q+A gets buried in threads. But once a Q is A"d, then the definition post should be updated/clarified so that the same Q doesn"t get asked again

Agreed, wording has been updated.