Poker association or No-Limit Hold'Em association??

[WarBwastardo]

I think at last years $50,000 HORSE they did still rotate the games on the final table.  The year before when Chip Reece won they had NLHE only on the final table.

[kinboshi]

Great post Gordon.

Many of the the top pros (87.6% I think) want the world championship to settled by the $50,000 HORSE event rather than the current $10,000 NLHE.

I think it"s sad that even the HORSE event turns into NLHE for the final table for the purposes of the TV. Are TV watching poker player to stupid to learn a new game? I don"t think so and I"m sure 98.6% of them aren"t.

You really think that most pros think the HORSE event should be the one that determines the "best player"?  It"s made up of games that many of them don"t play more than a handful of times a year.

97.6% of pros said their cats prefer NLHE.

[RioRodent]

Great post Gordon.

Many of the the top pros (87.6% I think) want the world championship to settled by the $50,000 HORSE event rather than the current $10,000 NLHE.

I think it"s sad that even the HORSE event turns into NLHE for the final table for the purposes of the TV. Are TV watching poker player to stupid to learn a new game? I don"t think so and I"m sure 98.6% of them aren"t.

You really think that most pros think the HORSE event should be the one that determines the "best player"?  It"s made up of games that many of them don"t play more than a handful of times a year.

97.6% of pros said their cats prefer NLHE.

He didn"t say "most pros" - he said "most top pros"... Most proffessional poker players probably think that HORSE is just one of the large brown animals that they lose half of their poker winnings on.

By "top pros" he meant those that have been around a while (you know; started shaving, don"t know how to set a VCR etc), the ones that were making a living out of poker before the interweb... the top "poker" proffessionals, who know how to play other games than NLHE.

And just remember what Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

And in the words of Forest Gump, "That"s all I have to say about that!"

Hey, lets be careful out there!

[SirPercival]

Come on Des, take the bate and tell us there "are exciting plans which will be announced next week"

[Ironside]

surely the title of the thread should be poker tour or NLHE poker tour

as the tour and the assoc arent the same thing

[kinboshi]

Great post Gordon.

Many of the the top pros (87.6% I think) want the world championship to settled by the $50,000 HORSE event rather than the current $10,000 NLHE.

I think it"s sad that even the HORSE event turns into NLHE for the final table for the purposes of the TV. Are TV watching poker player to stupid to learn a new game? I don"t think so and I"m sure 98.6% of them aren"t.

You really think that most pros think the HORSE event should be the one that determines the "best player"?  It"s made up of games that many of them don"t play more than a handful of times a year.

97.6% of pros said their cats prefer NLHE.

He didn"t say "most pros" - he said "most top pros"... Most proffessional poker players probably think that HORSE is just one of the large brown animals that they lose half of their poker winnings on.

OK, we struggled to define "pro", now we"re going to define "top pro".

By "top pros" he meant those that have been around a while (you know; started shaving, don"t know how to set a VCR etc), the ones that were making a living out of poker before the interweb... the top "poker" proffessionals, who know how to play other games than NLHE.

So the top pros in any other sport or game are only the ones who"ve been around for a long time?  Nadal isn"t a top tennis pro?  That Cesc Fabregas has to wait another 10 years before he"s a "top pro"?

Annette isn"t a top pro then?  Interesting...

Also, as an aside to the problem of defining "top pro" I still think you"ll find that most of the "old pros" (which is what I think you"re referring to) don"t believe that the HORSE winner is the "best" player.  Most of them don"t play razz regularly, so why should this be part of the tournament that decides the "best" player?

Roger Federer is the best tennis player in the world (pretty much fact).  When was the last time he won a men"s doubles tournament, what about mixed doubles?  

And just remember what Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Also remember what Hitler said:

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

And in the words of Forest Gump, "That"s all I have to say about that!"

He also said something about chocolates.

[Waz1892]

Being newish to the Poker scene, and the basis that APAT is an amatuer organistion, I think (Could be wrong) bring in less main stream games such as Omaha, etc..the numbers for these events would be even lower.

Also it may put off people playing at all, if say 10% are not NLHE games and thus points to be lost?

[WarBwastardo]

The Omaha, Stud and Razz events schedules for later this year should give an indication of the demand for different variations of poker. 

I can"t see people deciding against playing the NLHE nationals because of the inclusion of ranking events that are not NLHE. 

I"m sure the vast majority of people play the NLHE national events because they want to have a good weekend away and maybe win some money rather than to pick up the ranking points on offer.

[HaworthBantam]

The Omaha, Stud and Razz events schedules for later this year should give an indication of the demand for different variations of poker. 

Totally agree. The folk wanting alternative variations of poker (including me) need to support these events. It"s the only way of proving a demand for these games.

I can"t see people deciding against playing the NLHE nationals because of the inclusion of ranking events that are not NLHE.

Neither can I.

I"m sure the vast majority of people play the NLHE national events because they want to have a good weekend away and maybe win some money rather than to pick up the ranking points on offer.

Absolutely, although the "win some money" bit is pushing it a little far   As for ranking points, sorry, what are they ?  

I generally participate for the experience, fun, to catch up with friends, and to watch my other half out perform me time and again.....

Having the opportunity to play Omaha, Razz, Stud etc within the APAT community can only enhance the player experience, IMHO.

[RioRodent]

Great post Gordon.

Many of the the top pros (87.6% I think) want the world championship to settled by the $50,000 HORSE event rather than the current $10,000 NLHE.

I think it"s sad that even the HORSE event turns into NLHE for the final table for the purposes of the TV. Are TV watching poker player to stupid to learn a new game? I don"t think so and I"m sure 98.6% of them aren"t.

You really think that most pros think the HORSE event should be the one that determines the "best player"?  It"s made up of games that many of them don"t play more than a handful of times a year.

97.6% of pros said their cats prefer NLHE.

He didn"t say "most pros" - he said "most top pros"... Most proffessional poker players probably think that HORSE is just one of the large brown animals that they lose half of their poker winnings on.

OK, we struggled to define "pro", now we"re going to define "top pro".

By "top pros" he meant those that have been around a while (you know; started shaving, don"t know how to set a VCR etc), the ones that were making a living out of poker before the interweb... the top "poker" proffessionals, who know how to play other games than NLHE.

So the top pros in any other sport or game are only the ones who"ve been around for a long time?  Nadal isn"t a top tennis pro?  That Cesc Fabregas has to wait another 10 years before he"s a "top pro"?

Annette isn"t a top pro then?  Interesting...

Also, as an aside to the problem of defining "top pro" I still think you"ll find that most of the "old pros" (which is what I think you"re referring to) don"t believe that the HORSE winner is the "best" player.  Most of them don"t play razz regularly, so why should this be part of the tournament that decides the "best" player?

Roger Federer is the best tennis player in the world (pretty much fact).  When was the last time he won a men"s doubles tournament, what about mixed doubles?  

And just remember what Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Also remember what Hitler said:

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

And in the words of Forest Gump, "That"s all I have to say about that!"

He also said something about chocolates.

Touchy yesterday as well, eh??

[Waz1892]

I can"t see people deciding against playing the NLHE nationals because of the inclusion of ranking events that are not NLHE. 

I was meaning online events, like if 10% of online games that go to the final pointa tally are non NLHE, then it might put people off playing at all, as they will be starting  10% down so to speak.

[HaworthBantam]

I was meaning online events, like if 10% of online games that go to the final pointa tally are non NLHE, then it might put people off playing at all, as they will be starting  10% down so to speak.

Surely that"s an individuals choice as to whether they play the other variants or not, in the same way that it"s my choice not to play online, putting me 50% in arrears as far as ranking points are concerned.

The association shouldn"t be constrained to just providing NLHE events as ranking events - there"s a lot more to poker than NLHE. If the membership want other events then we should be looking at possible ways of meeting this demand.

[WarBwastardo]

Waz, Perhaps it"s up to those individuals to accept that it"s a poker tour and poker doesn"t begin and end with NLHE?  Just as live players have to accept that poker is also played on the intrawebs and vice-versa.

I don"t play any of the online games so as far as points go, like Haworth, I"m handicapping myself, but I play poker to win money attempt to win money and to enjoy the table banter so the points the whole tour offers are not really important to me.

I do think anyone reluctant to have a stab at the other variations of poker are denying the themselves opportunity to get involved in some great games. It seems quite impoverished just to restrict yourself to NLHE.  If it"s online tournaments we"re talking about, it"s only going to cost you $5 to sample these games.  Why not just give it a go?

Also, to the guy who was keen to have everyone post their bad beat stories, Omaha is a drawing game anyway so bad beats are rare, but when they do occur they"re particularly brutal so you should get hear some quite juicy ones.

[GiMac]

Am I missing something here or isn"t part of the aim of the association supposed to introduce new players to "the game"?

So the real crux of the matter is surely, Is "the game" NLHE or poker in general?

If it"s poker in general, as I think most people would hope it was, then to meet it"s own aims it should provide an introduction to the other poker variants.

Nuff said me thinks.  

[Waz1892]

I was meaning online events, like if 10% of online games that go to the final pointa tally are non NLHE, then it might put people off playing at all, as they will be starting  10% down so to speak.

The association shouldn"t be constrained to just providing NLHE events as ranking events - there"s a lot more to poker than NLHE. If the membership want other events then we should be looking at possible ways of meeting this demand.

Haworth / War... I do agree that it is a personal choice, but my feelings are to further grow the APAT I"d suspect that growth would be better gained through concentrating on NLHE rather than explore (at this point in time) into games that are less popular.

Now this maybe a sweeping statement, but members joining the APAT I"m guessing are new to poker, or at least newish....and solely player NLHE, this being the most sought after version, on which books are written, TV shows are made, and the WSOP of Poker is based on.  These " New " players  join such forums to improve their game online and have a greater exposure to the live scene, which is crucial in anyones " career".   IMHO