APAT rules question..!!

[Shogun112]

I wanted to ask a general sort of question regarding a slight discrepancy in a rule that I only heard about recently...  It is regarding sitting out...

I play most of my games online and occasionaly real games.. At first when I was playing Pokerstars, I could not believe that people joined an STT tournament and just sat out..!!  Did not seem fair to me, but then as I learnt more, I realsied that there had to be a way of dealing with it..!!

On Pokerstars, and many other online sites, if I sit out, the game goes around the table, and then for 2 hands, I automatically put in the Big and the small bline as they got past me...  Then for 8 hands, or however many people is still on my table, I manage to get to sit out for free.!!

When we were playing the APAT in Edinburgh, somebody on my table went away for some reason, and the same happened to him, but, after one round had happend, that guy who was sitting out, he was put in for the big blind for each and every hand thereafter..  I had never heard of it being played this way, and yes, I liked that idea. 

The idea that the people who play on Pokerstars, would wanna try enter a 9 player tournament and do nothing and sometimes make the money would be ever so severly hurt as it would surely never happen..!!

It brought me onto the APAT and Pokerstars relationship and difference of rules..  I guess, when we play a live game, we use the APAT rules, and when we play the online open games, or the live qualifiers, we play the Pokerstars rules.. 

The question I wanted to ask is...  Do we??  Or, have APAT manage to get Pokerstars to change the online events to blind people out differently??

Cheers

Carl..

[swordfish]

As far as I"m aware that rule of posting the BB for players who are sat out for a period of time is a rule at Gala Maybury, certainly it has been the case every time I"ve played there.  Someone mentioned it at our table at Edinburgh APAT, and was told by the dealer that the rule was not in place for this tournament.  So the blinds were only posted when it was the missing players turn.

[Shogun112]

Hmm, ok, then maybe that in mind, another thought or discussion should be held regarding consistency...  The dealer on our table at Edinburgh, he was brought over from Gala in Glasgow because they never had enough dealers on the day..  Maybe he was never included in any briefing..  I dont know, but I do know, it was the dealer that explained that rule to me..  Not right if one table is playing one way and another is playing different rules...

Cheers

Carl..

[FlyingPig73]

The rules about the BB posting was explained to me a while ago by Tikay. It is what you said, after 1 (possibly 2) orbit and you are still not at the seat, you post a BB for each hand.

Or is it the second orbit you are missing you will post 1 BB per hand and the 3rd orbit you are missing you post 2 BB"s and so on and so forth....

I am not sure if these are UK Gaming Rules, or APAT's. I would hazard a guess at the former....Although Des will put us right...

I have confused myself now... Will look at the gamng laws tomorrow when I get a spare minute....

[Jon MW]

I disagree with this rule on a purely common sense level.

Essentially it means that if you stay at the table and manually fold every hand - you pay your blinds like everybody else, but if you go away and leave it to the dealer to fold them for you then you have to pay more.

Although I never do "sit out" in a tournament and I agree with peoples objections to it, I don"t think there is anything gained by having someone there physically folding every hand instead.

[kinboshi]

There aren"t any hard and fast rules for poker - and the creation of a standard rulebook that"s adopted throughout the UK is one of the APAT goals if I"m correct.

The rule you mention about those sitting out having to post a BB every hand is unfair.  As Jon mentioned, you sit at the table and fold every hand you only have to stump up the blinds once an orbit (and any antes).  This rule is however the standard rule in some casinos.  It"s not one I agree with, but if I play at a casino and I"m aware of the rule - I can"t complain.

As for the APAT Scotland event, the rule should NOT have been in force, as it certainly hasn"t been applied at other APAT events and it wasn"t being applied across all tables in Edinburgh either.

[RioRodent]

Hi, Devil"s Advocate here.

Consider this situation... it"s day 2 of the tournament and the huge chip leader has not made it back (due to the death of the guinea pig).

Is it really fair that the 2,3 perhaps 4 people sitting immediately to his right should have access to those free chips, while those on his left will get almost none of them.

Whilst I don"t actually agree with taking a BB every hand, at least it distributes the chips more evenly around the table - and I suspect that is the the reasoning behind the rule.

Devil"s Advocate signing off from sunny LV.  

[FlyingPig73]

I asked Tikay about the rule in Bham,,, this was because I had to travel back to Liverpool that night, and drive down again on the Sunday, and there was terrible road works.....

He told me the rule would be enforeced....Luckily I made it in time..

[tikay]

I asked Tikay about the rule in Bham,,, this was because I had to travel back to Liverpool that night, and drive down again on the Sunday, and there was terrible road works.....

He told me the rule would be enforeced....Luckily I made it in time..

What rule would be enforced? Certainly, you MUST Post the SB & BB every orbit, absent or not.

[FlyingPig73]

I asked Tikay about the rule in Bham,,, this was because I had to travel back to Liverpool that night, and drive down again on the Sunday, and there was terrible road works.....

He told me the rule would be enforeced....Luckily I made it in time..

What rule would be enforced? Certainly, you MUST Post the SB & BB every orbit, absent or not.

The rule that you would post a BB every hand after the first orbit or second orbit of you be missing at the table.....I asked you because I wasnt sure that you had to be in the seat at the start of play on 2nd day, but you said "you can be as late as you want, but you will post a BB every hand after the 1st orbit (cant remember wether it was first or 2nd)"..... As it turns out all was okay,, I finished 6th after Suited Jock got lucky on me....

Can you clarify the rule tikay? I didnt have a chance to check , and is it APAT's rule ot the GC?

I didnt have a problem with the rule, their the rules, we stick to them and that makes it fair.....

[kinboshi]

I asked Tikay about the rule in Bham,,, this was because I had to travel back to Liverpool that night, and drive down again on the Sunday, and there was terrible road works.....

He told me the rule would be enforeced....Luckily I made it in time..

What rule would be enforced? Certainly, you MUST Post the SB & BB every orbit, absent or not.

The rule that you would post a BB every hand after the first orbit or second orbit of you be missing at the table.....I asked you because I wasnt sure that you had to be in the seat at the start of play on 2nd day, but you said "you can be as late as you want, but you will post a BB every hand after the 1st orbit (cant remember wether it was first or 2nd)"..... As it turns out all was okay,, I finished 6th after Suited Jock got lucky on me....

Can you clarify the rule tikay? I didnt have a chance to check , and is it APAT's rule ot the GC?

I didnt have a problem with the rule, their the rules, we stick to them and that makes it fair.....

I"m sure APAT wouldn"t promote the rule of having to post the blinds every hand in your absence.  Every orbit yes, every hand - no.

[kinboshi]

Hi, Devil"s Advocate here.

Consider this situation... it"s day 2 of the tournament and the huge chip leader has not made it back (due to the death of the guinea pig).

Is it really fair that the 2,3 perhaps 4 people sitting immediately to his right should have access to those free chips, while those on his left will get almost none of them.

Whilst I don"t actually agree with taking a BB every hand, at least it distributes the chips more evenly around the table - and I suspect that is the the reasoning behind the rule.

Devil"s Advocate signing off from sunny LV.  

Of course, some players might have an advantage.  But it would be the same advantage if the chip leader was sitting there and folding every hand.

Distributing his chips every hand doesn"t make it fairer - just makes it quicker.  Not sure there is a "fair" way to cope with the absence of a player.  What about the players on other tables?  They don"t get a "free shot" at the chip leader"s chips - so it could be argued that it"s unfair to those on all the other tables.

[RioRodent]

Hi, Devil"s Advocate here.

Consider this situation... it"s day 2 of the tournament and the huge chip leader has not made it back (due to the death of the guinea pig).

Is it really fair that the 2,3 perhaps 4 people sitting immediately to his right should have access to those free chips, while those on his left will get almost none of them.

Whilst I don"t actually agree with taking a BB every hand, at least it distributes the chips more evenly around the table - and I suspect that is the the reasoning behind the rule.

Devil"s Advocate signing off from sunny LV.  

Of course, some players might have an advantage.  But it would be the same advantage if the chip leader was sitting there and folding every hand.

Distributing his chips every hand doesn"t make it fairer - just makes it quicker.  Not sure there is a "fair" way to cope with the absence of a player.  What about the players on other tables?  They don"t get a "free shot" at the chip leader"s chips - so it could be argued that it"s unfair to those on all the other tables.

As I said I don"t agree with it... just trying to offer some kind of justification for it... someone, somwhere at sometime must have thought it was a good idea!!  

[kinboshi]

Hi, Devil"s Advocate here.

Consider this situation... it"s day 2 of the tournament and the huge chip leader has not made it back (due to the death of the guinea pig).

Is it really fair that the 2,3 perhaps 4 people sitting immediately to his right should have access to those free chips, while those on his left will get almost none of them.

Whilst I don"t actually agree with taking a BB every hand, at least it distributes the chips more evenly around the table - and I suspect that is the the reasoning behind the rule.

Devil"s Advocate signing off from sunny LV.  

Of course, some players might have an advantage.  But it would be the same advantage if the chip leader was sitting there and folding every hand.

Distributing his chips every hand doesn"t make it fairer - just makes it quicker.  Not sure there is a "fair" way to cope with the absence of a player.  What about the players on other tables?  They don"t get a "free shot" at the chip leader"s chips - so it could be argued that it"s unfair to those on all the other tables.

As I said I don"t agree with it... just trying to offer some kind of justification for it... someone, somwhere at sometime must have thought it was a good idea!!  

I reckon it"s the same people who think that everyone wants to play £10 rebuys with 10 minute clocks and 1500 starting stacks...