Time to be a hero?

[mporter123]

Villain has $5K winnings on stars and is pretty fishy. Only have 32 hands on him but he is playing 32/15, peeling lots in and out of position and is yet to three bet. Not seen him get to showdown very often, seems to play fairly straightforward through the streets.

My image is pretty tight. Been getting a lot of respect and been opening up a lot in last couple of orbits.

PokerStars Hand #84324469684: Tournament #593441015, $8.00+$0.80 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (60/120) - 2012/08/05 19:39:30 WET [2012/08/05 14:39:30 ET]
Table "593441015 4" 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Cranky<3 (8002 in chips)
Seat 2: MtgoExodia (2131 in chips)
Seat 3: newpokface (5621 in chips)
Seat 4: Bladedge90 (4401 in chips)
Seat 5: Slottinho (5972 in chips)
Seat 6: Mark_Port157 (4783 in chips)
Cranky<3: posts the ante 15
MtgoExodia: posts the ante 15
newpokface: posts the ante 15
Bladedge90: posts the ante 15
Slottinho: posts the ante 15
Mark_Port157: posts the ante 15
newpokface: posts small blind 60
Bladedge90: posts big blind 120
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Mark_Port157 [ ]
Slottinho: folds
Mark_Port157: raises 180 to 300
Cranky<3: folds
MtgoExodia: folds
newpokface: calls 240
Bladedge90: folds
*** FLOP *** [   ]
newpokface: checks
Mark_Port157: bets 485
newpokface: calls 485
*** TURN *** [ ] []
newpokface: checks
Mark_Port157: bets 975
newpokface: calls 975
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
newpokface: bets 2160
Mark_Port157:

[noble1]

hard to see more missed draws than value hands to call here given reads...

78ss 45ss 45s maybe KJss KJhh turned into a bluff versus a trappy set 66 TT 33 maybe even JJ add in QT QJ a spew invoking AQ, 89ss and TJ... even KQss for a split

no shame in folding here given your assumption that villain is pretty straight forward...

i wouldn"t be averse at these stack sizes to delay cbet in spots/situations like this either now and then to mix it up and get my stronger 1pair hands to showdown if we hit turn/river, or stab/bluff if oppo checks to us twice etc etc [all on the board texture]

[deanp27]

Doubt I"d fold

[AAroddersAA]

Dunno, this does feel like he has a draw to me. One of those situations, I know I am beat but just can"t figure out how.

32/15 are not that impressive as stats based purely on that it sounds like we have a player who calls a little too much. Calling from the SB is not great in this situation either.

I therefore have no idea what he has preflop. I can just about say it is not total junk but other than that I really have no idea. The flop is bad I might well check behind here but I really don"t mind the c-bet. The only thing is this player is likely to call (based on what little I know) so you have to be ready to fire twice maybe. When he does call can we put him on much?

He could have a flush draw, He could have a mid pair like eights or nines. He could certainly have a ten. AK sounds unlikely as he SHOULD have 3 bet pre but you did say he doesn"t 3-bet much. AsKs is possible I guess but unlikely. A monster is awlays possible.

Turn is a good card for us. He check to us again. He probably folds the mid pairs if we bet again. The flush draw will call ( which we want him too). A really big hand should raise us here if we bet which we don"t want as we would have to fold most likely. Checking behind is not a bad play, I probably do it but see circumstances where it costs us value. I would check it but the bet is OK as well again.

The river does not look like anything changed, unless he somehow has AK which it does not feel like he has unless it"s AsKs and that SHOULD 3-bet pre. A really big hand like a set should have raised the turn after we bet.

It feels strong when he leads out though. We should beat none of his value range now but I don"t see how he has anything. I think the correct play is a fold but probably talk myself into calling and doubt I would be good too often.

Pretty tough spot.

[Swinebag]

There are quite a few flush draws on the flop that make straights on the river so you only beat missed flush draws. It is not the worst spot to make a hero of yourself.

I think it is 50/50 here. With a strong river bet I am fearing the worst but I won"t lie to you, I call this off.

At the end of the day: "if you can"t decide between call or fold, call because it is more fun"

[TheSnapper]

Fold

[WYoung83]

Im in the fold side also. Board texture is not looking like hes gonna bluff, his line looks real strong and thats all you can beat is a bluff.

Well i guess u can beat J9ss, thats the only value hand he has, but his river bet looks a little large for a Jack.

[noble1]

Only have 32 hands on him but he is playing 32/15, peeling lots in and out of position and is yet to three bet. Not seen him get to showdown very often, seems to play fairly straightforward through the streets.

peeling lots in and out of position - so basically he has raised 5 pre and called a raise 5 times, but u have seen the odd hand go to showdown..
i think you would probably get more insight if u posted the 10 hands he has played before this one and asked the thread what sort of assumptions they might make on this player, see if the thread might recognise tendencies that u are missing etc etc..
paste the selected hands into a replayer then see what conclusions the thread would come to with this hand...

there is no magical hero call pill to make sure you always lay down the losers but never lay down a winner.... a good feel will come through studying your opponents and gaining more and more experience and hopefully u will get more right than wrong.
think through the likely holdings of your opponent and consider now and then giving them credit for the hand they are representing, its a fine line getting to get it right, making a good lay down is just as an important skill as hero calling

other thoughts - to get beyond being a good ABC poker player don"t be overly rigid in your thinking, don"t dismiss folding as weakness, actually it takes a strong player to make tough folds..

[mporter123]

When he bets the river I timebanked it for ages and tried to put him on exact hands. I am basically only bluff catching now. I think he folds AKo on the turn. He could have AK of spades but would expect a 3bet pre. Its a possibility though. I think there"s a lot of flush draws there. Ax of spades, suited connectors.

The only hands I could put him on that beat me were 8s9s or AsKs. I think he just checks all his two pairs now, raises sets on flop/turn.

Will have a look at some of the other hands I have on him.

[AMRN]

This is a fold for me (a sigh fold, but def a fold). At this level people rarely turn their missed draws into big bluffs with absolute air on the river having check/called on flop and turn.   I doubt that one pair is ever ahead here, and he probably shows up with a badly played AK.

FWIW, I probably also cbet the flop, but when you"ve hit the turn, you now have great showdown value and position. Agreed that we should always look to get more chips in when ahead, and that aggro is nearly always better then conservative, however this might also be a decent spot to check for pot control, albeit if he is drawing you would give him a free card.  In this particular spot a check on the turn might induce more bluffs on the river, and you would probably feel a lot better making a hero call of a bet of around 700 rather than 2100 from your 4k stack.

[MintTrav]

I would need some knowledge of previous hands to call there, Mark. You are probably losing.

I agree with Steve that the pot is out of control, so you might have found a different route to the end with less exposure.


I don"t necessarily with this:

we should always look to get more chips in when ahead

[cuzza23]

I would put him on a flush draw straight from the flop, his check call is an attempt to see a free card and to keep the pot small, no point in betting coz he could face a reraise from you. The fact he done the same on the turn and missed the flush would make me more confident that he was on the flush draw. I think you"ve been done on the river by a straight , so I would fold (I think