Big $8.80 with QQ - What to do?

[PantsMan]

That just shows one of the players who"s shoved is decent but even then he"s shoving over the top of a raise from the cutoff. The fact he"s a good player doesn"t mean he"s got aces or kings here. In fact i"d say it"s less likely.

And here"s the other person in the pot:

http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/bapsilva/poker/ratings/AB91A27F4E4F48CB888608631E1D9124.html?t=3

For every kuzla in these tourneys there are 4 or 5 bapsilvas!

[noble1]

That just shows one of the players who"s shoved is decent but even then he"s shoving over the top of a raise from the cutoff. The fact he"s a good player doesn"t mean he"s got aces or kings here. In fact i"d say it"s less likely.

And here"s the other person in the pot:

http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/bapsilva/poker/ratings/AB91A27F4E4F48CB888608631E1D9124.html?t=3

For every kuzla in these tourneys there are 4 or 5 bapsilvas!

Grant hasn"t raised from the cut off, there has only been 3 folds on a table of 9...

shame Grant wasn"t using a hud, it would of been interesting to know what his raise % from mp and his overall pfr % whilst seated at the table with these guys... tbh imo to categorically say never fold in this spot would be foolish, a bit more info would be nice kuzla has shoved 22bb to win 5bb from the hi-jack with 4 to act behind, if we knew Grants stats it"d give everyone a better idea of what sort range kuzla might have, likewise bapsilva...

tough one Grant, from looking at kuzla"s stats he won, i hope it wasn"t to horrendous

[Santino67]

Great to see all the responses to this and it"s all part of the never ending learning of this magical game. I"m sure many of you will be surprised to know that I folded and left them to battle it out. Two reasons for my fold:
1/I believed I was in bad shape against one of them
2/ I have a decent enough stack and a good feel for this table, that I believe I can pick up chips elsewhere

Turns out it was a poor fold, I was gutted when I saw them flip over (Kuzla) AK v (Bapsilva) AQ. I"d have been in tremendous shape in this spot. I still felt like a bit of a chump afterwards, despite the fact that an ace landed on the river.

[WYoung83]

At least u can admit to a bad fold then. Did you know who Kuzla was at the time? How would of that affected your decision if you could see that he crushes the micro/low stakes big field mtts?

I think for me, if i know hes a sicko then im calling even quicker.

[Santino67]

At least u can admit to a bad fold then. Did you know who Kuzla was at the time? How would of that affected your decision if you could see that he crushes the micro/low stakes big field mtts?

I think for me, if i know hes a sicko then im calling even quicker.

Probably true if I"d known more about both players but I"m not playing huge amounts and only joined Stars this season for the APAT league. I certainly didn"t get an impression of either of them being aggro on that table while I"d been there.

Just found this lol
http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/SantinoAPAT/poker/results/DF20B80A346C4869BA06CFA72A337F7D.html?t=2

[George2Loose]

U have the third best hand in poker. Call

[PantsMan]

That just shows one of the players who"s shoved is decent but even then he"s shoving over the top of a raise from the cutoff. The fact he"s a good player doesn"t mean he"s got aces or kings here. In fact i"d say it"s less likely.

And here"s the other person in the pot:

http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/bapsilva/poker/ratings/AB91A27F4E4F48CB888608631E1D9124.html?t=3

For every kuzla in these tourneys there are 4 or 5 bapsilvas!

Grant hasn"t raised from the cut off, there has only been 3 folds on a table of 9...

shame Grant wasn"t using a hud, it would of been interesting to know what his raise % from mp and his overall pfr % whilst seated at the table with these guys... tbh imo to categorically say never fold in this spot would be foolish, a bit more info would be nice kuzla has shoved 22bb to win 5bb from the hi-jack with 4 to act behind, if we knew Grants stats it"d give everyone a better idea of what sort range kuzla might have, likewise bapsilva...

tough one Grant, from looking at kuzla"s stats he won, i hope it wasn"t to horrendous

Fair enough, misread the positions, my apologies. It"s never really a case of never fold but in this spot i"d have to have a very good reason to and with the information given it"s a straightforward call for me.

Given the fact we now know kuzla to be a winning player and bapsilva to be awful do you call?

[noble1]

Fair enough, misread the positions, my apologies. It"s never really a case of never fold but in this spot i"d have to have a very good reason to and with the information given it"s a straightforward call for me.

Given the fact we now know kuzla to be a winning player and bapsilva to be awful do you call?

yep i call  because i"m not a nitty type, so kuzla"s range would maybe be wider than normal... the only time i"d contemplate a fold in this spot/buy in was if for whatever reason i"d hardly opened any hands and my hud stats were showing that i hardly ever folded to a 3bet and my opening raise % from this position was really low like 4 or 5% and i thought that bapsilva had some idea that he knows that kuzla knows that... [if u know what i mean ]

1/I believed I was in bad shape against one of them
2/ I have a decent enough stack and a good feel for this table, that I believe I can pick up chips elsewhere

just on this part Grant, u had the 3 bigger stacks on your right, although not overly blessed with chips [or yourself] were they really playing that bad that u thought u"d get plenty of situations to get chips without a showdown? add in the shorter stacks to your left, in what ways did u think u could pick up chips?

with the shorter stacks all to your left when u opened did u have an idea pre-flop of who"d u call and what ranges u thought they might shove or re-raise on u? did u forget to factor in what u"d do if one jammed and some1 cold called the 3bet?..

would any1 ever think about limping in Grants situation?

a good read from Daryl Jace - http://www.tournamentpokeredge.com/analyzing-your-game-are-you-outplaying-the-table/

YOU SUCK, I SUCK, WE ALL SUCK!

reminds me of a similar thing Galfond/Gigabet did on striving to have no bias/set thoughts in your thinking...

[Santino67]

Fair enough, misread the positions, my apologies. It"s never really a case of never fold but in this spot i"d have to have a very good reason to and with the information given it"s a straightforward call for me.

Given the fact we now know kuzla to be a winning player and bapsilva to be awful do you call?

yep i call  because i"m not a nitty type, so kuzla"s range would maybe be wider than normal... the only time i"d contemplate a fold in this spot/buy in was if for whatever reason i"d hardly opened any hands and my hud stats were showing that i hardly ever folded to a 3bet and my opening raise % from this position was really low like 4 or 5% and i thought that bapsilva had some idea that he knows that kuzla knows that... [if u know what i mean ]

1/I believed I was in bad shape against one of them
2/ I have a decent enough stack and a good feel for this table, that I believe I can pick up chips elsewhere

just on this part Grant, u had the 3 bigger stacks on your right, although not overly blessed with chips [or yourself] were they really playing that bad that u thought u"d get plenty of situations to get chips without a showdown? add in the shorter stacks to your left, in what ways did u think u could pick up chips?

with the shorter stacks all to your left when u opened did u have an idea pre-flop of who"d u call and what ranges u thought they might shove or re-raise on u? did u forget to factor in what u"d do if one jammed and some1 cold called the 3bet?..

would any1 ever think about limping in Grants situation?

Cheers for the PM James, I"ll catch up with that in near future. I"ve actually been seeing more of the bigger stacks" hands at the table and comfortable I"m on their left. Nutzho & Luckyclover raising fairly regularly and calling raises with hands like A7, K/10 etc etc. Short stacks generally not getting involved other than shove or fold, 7okepp had a reasonable stack for a long time, lost a decent pot then appeared to have gone card dead at this point. Had this situation resulted in one shove and I"m HU then I"m surely calling, but after serious consideration I folded. FWIW I went on to cash with a fairly healthy stack then ironically lost 2 races in a row with middle PPs and a 3rd pair as short stack busted me out