Re-Entry or No Re-Entry, that is the question

[fandango]

To have a re-entry or not...i am against re-entry for the simple reason of that point that Richard said playeres playing wild nowing they have a re-entry....and theN rivering somebody that is playing their game.....Tournament Poker for me should be ....You Pay...You Play your game if you lose you are out simple has that.....so often i see re-entry tournaments-------people playing they game and on asshole or two with the oldest excuse in the Book....HMMMMMMMM I HAVE TO PAY I HAVE 1 OUT....AND I CAN RE-ENTRY WHY NOT LETS PAY FOR MY ONE OUT...AND BINGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ...................IT CAME................AND YOU THAT MADE ALWAYS THE RIGHT MOVES ARE AT THE CASHIER WASTING YOUR MONEY BECAUSE ONE DONK HAD STILL A RE-ENTRY AND DECIDED TO HAVE A BINGO GO......SO NO TO THE RE-ENTRIES A SAY.......YOU LOSE TOUGH ...........GO FISH TO THE POND I SAY!!!!!

Your against RE-ENTRY then i take it  

[Swinebag]

To have a re-entry or not...i am against re-entry for the simple reason of that point that Richard said playeres playing wild nowing they have a re-entry....and theN rivering somebody that is playing their game.....Tournament Poker for me should be ....You Pay...You Play your game if you lose you are out simple has that.....so often i see re-entry tournaments-------people playing they game and on asshole or two with the oldest excuse in the Book....HMMMMMMMM I HAVE TO PAY I HAVE 1 OUT....AND I CAN RE-ENTRY WHY NOT LETS PAY FOR MY ONE OUT...AND BINGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ...................IT CAME................AND YOU THAT MADE ALWAYS THE RIGHT MOVES ARE AT THE CASHIER WASTING YOUR MONEY BECAUSE ONE DONK HAD STILL A RE-ENTRY AND DECIDED TO HAVE A BINGO GO......SO NO TO THE RE-ENTRIES A SAY.......YOU LOSE TOUGH ...........GO FISH TO THE POND I SAY!!!!!

Your against RE-ENTRY then i take it  

I think we need some clarification first

[AAroddersAA]

OK, had been meaning to post on this thread for a while now seems a good of a time as any.

Firstly, there is no advantage to somebody who can afford to re-enter. All it means is they can buy in (just like an alternate) and if they play differently and gain an advantage from this then if it is an advantage they should have been doing it anyway (re-entry or not), if it is not an advantage then they are juicing the pot, sometimes you will get eliminated by somebody making a poor play, that"s poker and you want them to do that anyway.

Also the re-entries are not compulsory so you lose nothing if you were not going to rebuy anyway. It"s APAT and there is a bar and apater"s being out is not so bad. In fact being out is sometimes too much fun and it has in the past made a difference to a decision I made, when I was thinking if I go out, do I really care? Most of us don"t have any fear of being out, I will just enter the next one anyway, which is the same as a re-entry I just have to wait until next month (in the grand scheme of things this is exactly what it is). Actually if people are playing with a fear of going out the a re-entry is a good idea for APAT as it would teach people not too, just make the right play, if you run into the top of somebodies range on this occasion or get outdrawn, so be it - the bar is still there. The fact it is a re-entry does not make a decision that would be a fold in a freezeout a call. The EV of the decision would be exactly the same. For it to change there would have to be a huge metagame (which there is not at an APAT event).

Obviously we can"t only have them in certain circumstances, but somebody wanting a re-entry should go to the bottom of the alternate list so they might not get back in. If I did win an APAT after re-entering it would not feel tainted in the slightest to me.

I agree re-entries and rebuy"s are different, would not be in favor of a rebuy event (accept as a side event which would be good).

So overall I am for re-entries and see no reason to limit them.

One case that I do think deserves consideration though. The reason I still play apat tournaments is because I met a lot of apater"s during them and really enjoyed spending the time at them, it"s this that brought me back to apat and doing so has in turn improved my game I think. Re-entries risk the removal of this which I don"t think should be under-estimated.

But at the end of the day, re-entries will reduce the variance and favor better players which I all for.

[duke3016]

.............It"s APAT and there is a bar.........In fact being out is sometimes too much fun......the bar is still there.

[Jon MW]

.... The fact it is a re-entry does not make a decision that would be a fold in a freezeout a call. The EV of the decision would be exactly the same. For it to change there would have to be a huge metagame (which there is not at an APAT event).
...

I don"t think I"ve ever seen you mention $EV in any of your hand analysis.

And that"s what"s wrong with your analysis here - the chip EV won"t be changed by it being a re-entry.

But if you have a freezeout then going out means your end result is -100% $EV; but in a re-entry it doesn"t - it just reduces it proportionately to the chips you"ve just lost before you buy back in.

That"s why in a re-entry it would be correct, for example, to risk losing 100"s of blinds on a coin flip - whereas in a straight freezeout - it wouldn"t. If you only ever look at chip EV then it"s probably better to stick to cash rather than tournaments.

[AAroddersAA]

$EV, I have mentioned it a few times and said I don"t think I fully understand it, which is also the reason I mainly comment on cash hands although I have recently started entering discussions about tournaments although I don"t think I am close to as good on these. I would certainly only be considering cEV in the early stages and not $EV though. This could be wrong in very specific situation btw.

You can just enter another tournament though, you have still paid £163 to enter twice you have the same number of chips and have paid the same amount for them (I am obviously ignoring expense"s here). Also the reasons most people have given for not wanting re-entries (might get outdrawn etc) are in my opinion reason to have re-entries.

Meh we ain"t going to resolve it here, it needs to be discussed over a beer at DTD ldo.

.............It"s APAT and there is a bar.........In fact being out is sometimes too much fun......the bar is still there.

Yes Ger, this has been confirmed as being in a large part your doing :-)

[Gup9y]

I fully understand that re entry is becoming the thing these days but APAT can remain unique here by not playing along for the following reasons:

1. It"s the title we all want first and foremost
2. It"s not similar to the professional circuit where the prize pool is the incentive
3. Makes for a better game as it"s win or lose - lose your chips and your out

Again these are my thoughts and although we will need to change with times, as longs as numbers grow (and I"m sure they will) there is no need to allow re entry.

Hope these comments don"t upset anyone.