Fold.
I mean it sucks but what are we beating that plays like this? If this player was somebody like Dan Owston or John Murray (ie Somebody who knows how to properly represent a hand on the right board and also knows you are capable of folding then we have a harder decision - and it"s still a fold). As it we have an unknown player who has cold called a 3-bet which is strange, I guess he could have QQ or JJ trying to keep it cheap, maybe AK? It really looks like that kind of hand or even some SC. When you make a 4-bet he should be able to put you on a decent hand like the one you have. I would have made the 4-bet 3K myself. When he cold calls again I really think he is on a pair. The flop comes down and is silly and suddenly this player who wanted to keep the pot small preflop and should know you have a really good hand suddenly seems to want to play for stacks. If he has QQ or JJ why so cautious pre to take off now, his hand has not really changed and it does not seem like you have AK, he should know you have a big hand. I just don"t see a hand we beat as that likely here. People just don"t play like this in APAT's very often. I think he has got a set (things are usually exactly as they seem at this stage).
As played fold flop. Especially given your reads.
NB If you are not folding I think you get shown a set a LOT here. I also think you have to make a decision on the flop, you play for stacks or fold, if you call the bet on the flop, when he ships the turn you insta call.
See my opinion is generally the polar opposite of all of that, and you think about the game a hell of alot more deeply than me.
I honestly think that we are shown anywhere from 99-QQ here the vast majority of the time.
I think that, even more so recently, this is the type of hand that people are showing in APAT's. It has a reputation of being a Nitfest, but i think that has changed somewhat recently.
Qucik question... you say people just dont "play like this" at APAT's (or words to that effect. OK then, so DO people call a raise and a re riase with 22,33 or 44 pre in that case? I"m not too sure they do.
Yeah, good point and good post
Generally no, so that"s why it is a good point. He seems to have got stuck with it though. He has called what feels like a small bet of 750 given stack sizes and then been laid odds to call again to the four bet against two players who seem to have big hands. It actually does not make sense that he has 22-44 he at all. It"s just I think he does anyway.
This just feels like a weird spot that does not make sense anyway, we have a player who wants to keep the pot small pre, who now wants to play a big pot. Bet sizing is also worth noting here, I think and that bet feels REALLY strong, it does not feel like QQ to me. QQ makes sense preflop
If we are going with our reads also I don"t see why 99-QQ would be uncomfortable pre-flop and then happy on the flop though, their hand did not improve although it does beat AK now, but why are they trying to fold out AK, QQ should be check/calling (or check/shoving) the flop if it has got this far (which tbh it shouldn"t have). A set would be hoping you can"t get away from your overpair and donking to induce a shove. I may be over thinking this situation of course but everything about this hand, feels like we are beat. It is one of those situations where you are really not sure how you can be beat, you just are. Usually I find when I ignore this and call off anyway (which happen all the time *lol*) I lose :-)
I CAN see the argument that he SHOULD have a smaller overpair a lot more often than a set here and in your average online tournament I probably call with the intention of getting all-in on the turn whatever it is. APAT's still play a little tighter than most other tournaments I am familiar with though.
This might seem strange as I am sure I have spent the last six months telling everybody who will listen, and a few people who didn"t actually want too, that if we see a good spot early (even a marginal one) that we should take it and our tournament life etc does not actually make too much difference at this point. I still stand by that, however I don"t think this is a good spot.
What would be interesting is if any of the updater"s can remember many people getting all-in with hands that one pair beats here. I doubt it happens very often and this player seems to want to get allin.