The 2nd National Online League of Season 6

[AAroddersAA]

I like the idea of getting 12 captains and letting them choose their teams. If it is possible I would like to see it done as a draft, as I don"t like the idea of just letting players picked by multiple captains just choose where they go as I think there would be a number of players (Dan Owston, George, Scouse, Paul McGuniess etc) who would be picked by almost all of the captain and they would likely all want to play for the same team, which would make perfect sense. So you could still end up with a superteam.

A better alternative in my view would be a draft where you start a thread, players can post on it why they should be picked complete with graphs and everything and then at a time when all the captains are available they could post on the thread selecting their team one by one. Railing this thread would be quite entertaining as well. This should lead to pretty balanced team"s. You would also reverse the draft order for each round so the person who gets the last pick in the first round egts first pick in the second round etc.

This should lead to well balanced teams and gives everybody in the community a more than less equal chance. Sounds like a logistically nightmare of course but Leigh is cleverer than me so might be able to get it done.

[GiMac]

All this capping team numbers and picking teams is all very well in theory but it does not allow for people to join throughout the season, thereby excluding new members or not attracting any at all.

A fine example of a team that started small and ended up growing significantly with some really good results is the NE team. They started off with a small team but with a great recruitment drive by Scoop and some fine play ended up, i think, finishing in 3rd place and tbh if they had started the season like that would have been serious contenders for 1st place. they should be used as an example of a what can be done if people have the right attitude, enthusiasm, recruit, and remiind people to play etc etc. I know they are already gearing up for the next one and fully expect to challenge for the title.

[fandango]

Every one who wants to play, name down on a list.. Have X amount of teams say 8-10. Live draw or pre recorded on APAT stream.. Have two weeks of late registration once league starts.

Just throwing this option into the air.. Will play whatever is chosen  

[Sugar_Free]

I like the idea of getting 12 captains and letting them choose their teams. If it is possible I would like to see it done as a draft, as I don"t like the idea of just letting players picked by multiple captains just choose where they go as I think there would be a number of players (Dan Owston, George, Scouse, Paul McGuniess etc) who would be picked by almost all of the captain and they would likely all want to play for the same team, which would make perfect sense. So you could still end up with a superteam.

When the captains submit their 10 they have to put them 1 to 10 in the order they want them, so any duplicates go to the team that had them higher in the order. You would still have players having to choose but no chance of the superteam you suggest

but it does not allow for people to join throughout the season, thereby excluding new members or not attracting any at all.

Actually it does. Once the captains have filled their 10 spots, the rest of the player pool is put into a hat and drawn out eg Team one gets first player drawn out, team 2 gets second etc carrying on through until the pool is empty. If the last team to get a player is team 6 for instance, then the next new player would go to team 7, the next to team 8.

[GiMac]

I like the idea of getting 12 captains and letting them choose their teams. If it is possible I would like to see it done as a draft, as I don"t like the idea of just letting players picked by multiple captains just choose where they go as I think there would be a number of players (Dan Owston, George, Scouse, Paul McGuniess etc) who would be picked by almost all of the captain and they would likely all want to play for the same team, which would make perfect sense. So you could still end up with a superteam.

When the captains submit their 10 they have to put them 1 to 10 in the order they want them, so any duplicates go to the team that had them higher in the order. You would still have players having to choose but no chance of the superteam you suggest

but it does not allow for people to join throughout the season, thereby excluding new members or not attracting any at all.

Actually it does. Once the captains have filled their 10 spots, the rest of the player pool is put into a hat and drawn out eg Team one gets first player drawn out, team 2 gets second etc carrying on through until the pool is empty. If the last team to get a player is team 6 for instance, then the next new player would go to team 7, the next to team 8.

Yes, in theory, the mechanics work but there is nothing for them to identify with and therein nothing to attract them to play. I think a lot of people really didn"t get what this league was all about last time. Some teams bonded as teams, chatted via facebook during games, before games and after games, had meetups etc etc, others just played as individuals who just happened to be part of a team. I think the former teams were more successful because of their approach, not only that but the way they approached the games and the buzz that this created between team members attracted new players to play. i had several friends who asked me what it was all about cos they picked up on some facebook comments and ended up joining and playing and I know I was not alone.

Please explain how exactly your proposed option would attract new players and create the same banter, buzz & rivalry there was in the last league?

[Chipaccrual]

Yes, in theory, the mechanics work but there is nothing for them to identify with and therein nothing to attract them to play. I think a lot of people really didn"t get what this league was all about last time. Some teams bonded as teams, chatted via facebook during games, before games and after games, had meetups etc etc, others just played as individuals who just happened to be part of a team. I think the former teams were more successful because of their approach, not only that but the way they approached the games and the buzz that this created between team members attracted new players to play. i had several friends who asked me what it was all about cos they picked up on some facebook comments and ended up joining and playing and I know I was not alone.

I wish I"d written this Gordon.  Top post.

[GiMac]

Should just keep it exactly as it was. Do not change a thing. Theres nothing unfair about it at all. So what if Scotland have twice as many as Ireland etc? Every region has the same opportunity to increase their numbers. It is a level playing field format with an equal opportunity to strengthen your teams. If you fail to do this then it is tough luck. Does not matter where you were born. You should have to play for the address that you register into the software with. This will stop people picking their favourite team, even if they were probably born on Mars!

Manchester United have many more fans than Swansea, but they still play in the same league and nobody moans about it. I cannot believe how many people are moaning about the numbers here. I do not care one bit and I am Yorkshire. But we are known to be a tough lot and I am confident that we can overcome the numbers and take anyone down, as long as a couple more of us can afford to buy in, which was my problem last year when I lost my job. Being behind does not bother me. The challenge and the pride mean more to me than losing by 70 points or so.

I think that if the buy in was lowered to $5 then you will automatically see a huge improvement in attendance at the end of it all.

Why not put on a decent freeroll for everyone with 100% attendance at the end of the season? Just an idea. Come on let,s keep it how it was, lower the buy in, and show the Scotts that they can be beaten, at the same time letting them benefit for all the work put in to building their team.

Great Spirit, I like it!!!

I kind of agree with the reduced buy in too, although it"s a fine line between making it worthwhile for some players to play and keeping it affordable for all.

[Sugar_Free]

Manchester United have many more fans than Swansea, but they still play in the same league and nobody moans about it.

Are they all allowed to play at the same time, or do they cap the number at 11?

[GiMac]

This "they did well cos they had more players" argument is completely flawed.

How do people explain Wales coming 2nd with the 4th largest team and the North East finishing 3rd with the 5th largest team, not sure but I think Yorkshire was 5th with the 8th or 9th largest team?

The way I explain it is that they played as teams and not individuals. By that I don"t mean soft play, but bonded together as teams, which helped keep everyone interested, railing each other, dishing out banter to other teams, which meant people turned up each week. Team captains sent out messages to remind people to play, set up private games for team members to play together outside of the league, had a vibrant facebook page where people could post up for railers if they ran deep somewhere, set up meetups for those that lived near each other. It all adds up, but it takes some commitment from the captains.

I am just glad we had a captain in Paul Sefton who was prepared, imho, to go above and beyond for the team.

[Chipaccrual]

Details of the 2nd league have been finalised, I"m just waiting on a technical glitch to be resolved and I"ll post up the announcement.

[Sugar_Free]

Please explain how exactly your proposed option would attract new players and create the same banter, buzz & rivalry there was in the last league?

Attract new players...IDK, but then again IDK how they attracted new players with the previous format. Actually, not true, I was in Cork watching Frank go from table to table asking every player if the would like "to play for Ireland" and how their eyes lit up at the thought of representing their country. I assume the Wales and Scotland requests were met with something similar. I imagine Curly going round asking "How would you like to play for the South East, not including London" would not get the same reaction.

Banter and buzz.....I must have been in one of the latter teams as I don"t recall this although I believe that anyone can set up a facebook group and have it not region exclusive.

Rivalry......There was rivalry between Scotland and Wales, did any of the other 11 teams have a rivalry?

I get that you don"t like the idea, honest I do and I"m not trying to sell you on it. You just made up a problem on it that wasn"t there and all I did was put you right.

[GiMac]

Please explain how exactly your proposed option would attract new players and create the same banter, buzz & rivalry there was in the last league?

Attract new players...IDK, but then again IDK how they attracted new players with the previous format. Actually, not true, I was in Cork watching Frank go from table to table asking every player if the would like "to play for Ireland" and how their eyes lit up at the thought of representing their country. I assume the Wales and Scotland requests were met with something similar. I imagine Curly going round asking "How would you like to play for the South East, not including London" would not get the same reaction.

Banter and buzz.....I must have been in one of the latter teams as I don"t recall this although I believe that anyone can set up a facebook group and have it not region exclusive.

Rivalry......There was rivalry between Scotland and Wales, did any of the other 11 teams have a rivalry?

I get that you don"t like the idea, honest I do and I"m not trying to sell you on it. You just made up a problem on it that wasn"t there and all I did was put you right.

there was plenty of rivalry between NE (just jocks with their heads kicked in), Yorks (Tight feckers), Scotland (Sweaty socks), Wales (Sheep Shaggers), NW (north west of where exactly?), SE (Southern poofs), I could go on but I think you get the point. Much of the banter went on in the chat box on stars itself, especially on the final tables. Which even if we didn"t make, we stayed to rail our fellow team mates, another part of being in a team.

I didn"t say there was a problem with your solution per se, as I said the mechanics are sound, I just asked you to explain whilst solving the supposed problem a minority of people have with the old format, how would your solution still retain the benefits the vast majority of us enjoyed of the last one. but instead you choose to denigrate the last one, I think that answers my question. Thanks.

[AMRN]

Attract new players...IDK, but then again IDK how they attracted new players with the previous format. Actually, not true, I was in Cork watching Frank go from table to table asking every player if the would like "to play for Ireland" and how their eyes lit up at the thought of representing their country. I assume the Wales and Scotland requests were met with something similar. I imagine Curly going round asking "How would you like to play for the South East, not including London" would not get the same reaction.

^^This

I think this gets overlooked (conveniently by those that benefit) but is a critical factor. Personally, I play for the West Mids region, but only because I"m in the catchment (and have a few mates that also play there).... but it"s not the same emotional attachment that one gets when "playing for their country" - and that is why I never liked the rule change that created the country teams.... the playing field is uneven. Where is team England?

Not trying to re-open the old debate (before Gordon jumps down my throat), but it is an opinion. I will just get on an play whatever APAT put before us.

[Sef]

Not going to go into all the negativity surrounding team sizes etc. guys as it seems to be a recurring (nonsensical) theme. All I will say is why not put that energy into doing as Team Scotland and others have done and get recruiting

I read in this thread how much of an advantage Scotland , Wales etc had with team size , can i just say that we grew that size from nothing a couple of years ago through recruitment and promotion, to the team it was last year , and resent the comments of unfairness made.

Are we really going to go back down this road again , it seems that this discussion arises in between every league break and is becoming tedious to say the least.

APAT has asked for a discussion, which is why there is one. You can"t close it down because you don"t like what people are saying. I don"t recall seeing negative statements, as you claim, apart from your own. What I have seen is people putting forward constructive ideas.

And the idea that other regions can go and recruit members like Scotland supposedly did is unfeasible. They don"t have the inherent advantage that Scotland has of people who grew up there but live somewhere else wanting to play for them.

You would like to keep this advantage. You can post your views to try to achieve that, but other people are entitled to post theirs, whether you resent it or not.

Firstly for the record I resent nothing. Theres no negativity intended in my post and if you read it that way then hey ho. The negativity is in the whole ridiculous argument of team sizes (in my opinion) it"s just getting boring.  Secondly why wouldn"t we want to keep an advantage that WE worked hard to build from nothing through the same avenues available to everyone on every team?? It"s perfectly feasible for every team to build this way and I would urge everyone to do it..... we welcome the chase  

[Chipaccrual]

Attract new players...IDK, but then again IDK how they attracted new players with the previous format. Actually, not true, I was in Cork watching Frank go from table to table asking every player if the would like "to play for Ireland" and how their eyes lit up at the thought of representing their country. I assume the Wales and Scotland requests were met with something similar. I imagine Curly going round asking "How would you like to play for the South East, not including London" would not get the same reaction.

^^This

I think this gets overlooked (conveniently by those that benefit) but is a critical factor. Personally, I play for the West Mids region, but only because I"m in the catchment (and have a few mates that also play there).... but it"s not the same emotional attachment that one gets when "playing for their country" - and that is why I never liked the rule change that created the country teams.... the playing field is uneven. Where is team England?

Not trying to re-open the old debate (before Gordon jumps down my throat), but it is an opinion. I will just get on an play whatever APAT put before us.

Normally at the bar