Seven Card stud "Bring in". Help please.

[Matt D]

Delighted that there is Stud. Really happy about it. Please do it again and every time.

But please put on a proper tournament with a proper structure next time.

I was really looking forward to it, and we get given that.

What would you change with the structure John ?

Longer levels, more levels.  I"m no expert on stud, so bow to others knowledge on this.

I"ve calmed down now. And I"ve changed my reply, due to Matt's comment. I had assumed that it had been set like that deliberately, cos it was so different to how a Stud tournament normally runs. If that was not the case, why change it so radically from the usual structure?

The biggest difference was that bring-in was 50% of completion. Normally it is 30%. This made a huge difference. Normally a player with a high card showing can take a pot down by completing as the bringer-in has to call 70, with 30 already in. When it is 50 to call, with 50 already in, they are priced in to call. I can"t say for certain that this was a unique innovation, but I have never seen it before.

On subsequent streets, the fixed-limit bets were huge compared to the stacks. From quite early on, getting seriously involved in a pot meant committing your life. There was no room to play through the streets. Raise-folding meant serious damage to your stack, cos the stacks were so shallow.

I see the players still in have more reasonable stacks at this stage, so they may think differently about the tournament but I found it a horrible tournament to play.

Just setting up the Stud tourney for next week. I"ve watched a couple of Pokerstars tourneys, and the bring-in appears to be 1/3rd (33%) of completion. Is this right?

I"m happy to set up bring-in as 33%, 30% (as suggested above), or 50% (Boss default, though this seems a silly choice).

[Swinebag]

Seeing as most whinges complaints on this site are "its not as good as stars" based, I would match their structure.

[Matt D]

ty Rob

Please can resident Stud Experts take a look at the following:

Here"s the standard Pokerstars Blind Stucture (I think... As a complete Stud n00b if there are any errors, please let me know! I"m a little confused as to why the "antes" are so high compared to the Boss version). It appears "bring-in" is indeed 30% of "complete".

Level	Ante	Bring-in	Interval	Break	Bet Limit
1	5	7	15	0	25,50 (Fixed Limit)
2	10	15	15	0	50,100 (Fixed Limit)
3	15	24	15	0	75, 150 (Fixed Limit)
4	20	30	15	0	100,200 (Fixed Limit)
break
5	30	45	15	0	150,300 (Fixed Limit)
6	40	60	15	0	200,400 (Fixed Limit)
7	60	90	15	0	300,600 (Fixed Limit)
8	80	120	15	0	400,800 (Fixed Limit)
break
9	100	150	15	0	500,1000 (Fixed Limit)
10	120	180	15	0	600,1200 (Fixed Limit)
11	160	240	15	0	800,1600 (Fixed Limit)
12	200	300	15	0	1000,2000 (Fixed Limit)
break
13	240	360	15	0	1200,2400 (Fixed Limit)
14	320	480	15	0	1600,3200 (Fixed Limit)
15	400	600	15	0	2000,4000 (Fixed Limit)
16	500	750	15	0	2500,5000 (Fixed Limit)
break
17	600	900	15	0	3000,6000 (Fixed Limit)
18	800	1200	15	0	4000,8000 (Fixed Limit)
19	1000	1500	15	0	5000,10000 (Fixed Limit)
20	1200	1800	15	0	6000,12000 (Fixed Limit)
break
21	1600	2400	15	0	8000,16000 (Fixed Limit)
22	2000	3000	15	0	10000,20000 (Fixed Limit)
23	2400	3600	15	0	12000,24000 (Fixed Limit)
24	3200	4800	15	0	16000,32000 (Fixed Limit)
break
25	4000	6000	15	0	20000,40000 (Fixed Limit)
26	5000	7500	15	0	25000,50000 (Fixed Limit)
27	6000	9000	15	0	30000,60000 (Fixed Limit)
28	8000	12000	15		40000,80000 (Fixed Limit)
break
29	10000	15000	15	0	50000,100000 (Fixed Limit)
30	12000	18000	15	0	60000,120000 (Fixed Limit)

                                       


And below is the standard Boss structure (higher "Bring In", but much lower antes):

Level	Ante	Bring-in	Interval	Bet Limit
1	5	13	10	25,50 (Fixed Limit)
2	5	25	10	50,100 (Fixed Limit)
3	10	40	10	80,160 (Fixed Limit)
4	10	50	10	100,200 (Fixed Limit)
5	15	75	10	150,300 (Fixed Limit)
6	20	100	10	200,400 (Fixed Limit)
break
7	30	150	10	300,600 (Fixed Limit)
8	40	200	10	400,800 (Fixed Limit)
9	50	250	10	500,1000 (Fixed Limit)
10	60	300	10	600,1200 (Fixed Limit)
11	80	400	10	800,1600 (Fixed Limit)
12	100	500	10	1000,2000 (Fixed Limit)
break
13	120	600	10	1200,2400 (Fixed Limit)
14	160	800	10	1600,3200 (Fixed Limit)
15	200	1000	10	2000,4000 (Fixed Limit)
16	250	1250	10	2500,5000 (Fixed Limit)
17	300	1500	10	3000,6000 (Fixed Limit)
18	400	2000	10	4000,8000 (Fixed Limit)
break
19	500	2500	10	5000,10000 (Fixed Limit)
20	600	3000	10	6000,12000 (Fixed Limit)
21	800	4000	10	8000,16000 (Fixed Limit)
22	1000	5000	10	10000,20000 (Fixed Limit)
23	1200	6000	10	12000,24000 (Fixed Limit)
24	1600	8000	10	16000,32000 (Fixed Limit)
break
25	2000	10000	10	20000,40000 (Fixed Limit)
26	3000	15000	10	30000,60000 (Fixed Limit)
27	5000	25000	10	50000,100000 (Fixed Limit)

                  

[HOLDorFOLD]

Thanks for looking at this for us Matt.

I prefer the Stars structure, but maybe because that is what I am used to. 

Again, it"s probably best to wait for the Stud experts for their views ... if no one else replies then flip coin ftw  

[Matt D]

Thanks for looking at this for us Matt.

I prefer the Stars structure, but maybe because that is what I am used to. 

Again, it"s probably best to wait for the Stud experts for their views ... if no one else replies then flip coin ftw  

ha, I"m definitely going to use the Stars structure. I just wanted to make sure I had it 100% correct before sending it off, as the antes look a bit high to me...

[Sugar_Free]

I think the antes need to be high as there is only effectively one "small blind" per hand, the bring in

[AMRN]

Looks about right to me.

[Matt D]

Doesn"t this:

I think the antes need to be high as there is only effectively one "small blind" per hand, the bring in

totally negate this:

The biggest difference was that bring-in was 50% of completion. Normally it is 30%. This made a huge difference. Normally a player with a high card showing can take a pot down by completing as the bringer-in has to call 70, with 30 already in. When it is 50 to call, with 50 already in, they are priced in to call. I can"t say for certain that this was a unique innovation, but I have never seen it before.

e.g. Pokerstars structure: 8 players = 8 x 20 = 160. Bring in = 30. Pot = 190. Completer = 100. Pot now = 290. Bringer in = 70 to call with 290 already in. Pot odds = 4.14/1

Boss structure: 8 players = 8 x 10 = 80. Bring in = 50. Pot = 130. Completer = 100. Pot now = 230. Bringer in = 50 to call with 230 already in. Pot odds = 4.6/1

Hardly anything in it, pot-odds wise?

edit: 8 players not 7 per table in 7CS

[Jon MW]

With a high bring in it"s a player with probably bad cards who is being encouraged to stay in the pot.

With a high ante it"s the players who can choose to fold who are being encouraged to enter the pot - this way the hand is more likely to be played out and stops people being so nitty, which can cause a problem in limit tournaments.

[Matt D]

Thanks all.

Right, I"m going to send the above "Pokerstars" structure off tomorrow AM. So, if anyone else has any views please post before then. Thanks

[pables]

How about this one:-

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=sea+view&num=10&hl=en&biw=1099&bih=659&tbm=isch&tbnid=Z0rzf1xxikVDAM:&imgrefurl=http://housing.justlanded.com/en/Portugal_Algarve/For-Rent_Apartments/sea-view-flat&docid=ypUDMDGQQ6-6mM&imgurl=http://images2.just-landed.com/housing/Portugal_Algarve/For-Rent_Apartments/sea-view-flat-236037-1.jpg&w=384&h=290&ei=ExJ3UKzZKsq_0QWnroGwCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=325&vpy=333&dur=3991&hovh=195&hovw=258&tx=137&ty=152&sig=113469529280762779095&page=4&tbnh=149&tbnw=188&start=53&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:53,i:291

[Matt D]

lol vg

I"ll sea you in Glasgow!

[pables]

lol vg

I"ll sea you in Glasgow!

Unfortunately I wont SEA VIEW in Glasgow  :"(

[MintTrav]

Matt, the reason it hasn"t arisen as an issue on BOSS before may be that, although they have a standard structure, I don"t think they ever actually hold any Stud tournaments.

I can"t be definitive about it, but I have looked for them on several occasions and never found any.

Your structure looks alright to me.

[Matt D]

Matt, the reason it hasn"t arisen as an issue on BOSS before may be that, although they have a standard structure, I don"t think they ever actually hold any Stud tournaments.

I think that probably is the case.

I wonder what they do for Stud cash (which does run). Will check later.