Genting UK & Ireland Home Int Team Championship

[Chipaccrual]

I have heard a few people say that the MTT points are out of sync with the STT points, my suggestion is quite a simple one, make the points for the STT"s worth 5 times as much i.e 40,35,30 etc etc.  I think all former captains should get together for an online chat and come up with a standard points structure that is sanctioned by all countries which take part in team events. Personally I am happy to play under what ever scoring system Apat decides, however I have heard the comments about the MTT points on numerous occasions and feel consultation/debate is the best way forward to avoid future comments which I feel detracts from the efforts of the successful teams.

Using the above

The table would have looked like

Team	NLHE	PLO	MTT				TOTAL
Scotland B	140	130	139				409
England C	100	145	113				358
England B	100	150	100				350
England A	150	100	94				344
Wales B	140	110	88				338
Wales A	110	100	96				306
Scotland A	80	100	112				292
Ireland A	80	65	78				223

[Chipaccrual]

My suggestions for the a new point structure would be as follows :

STTs 1st place - 3 points,  2nd - 2 points, 3rd - 1 point
MTT 1st  place - 14 points, 2nd - 10 points, 3rd - 6 points, 4th - 4 points, 5th - 3 points, 6th -2 points, 7th - 1 point.

Found one that helps the Irish and Welsh.  If the above had worked the table would have looked like this

Team	NLHE	PLO	MTT				TOTAL
Scotland B	7	4	14				25
England B	2	6	9				17
Ireland A	2	1	14				17
Wales B	7	5	0				12
England A	6	3	2				11
England C	0	6	1				7
Scotland A	3	3	0				6
Wales A	3	2	0				5

[Chipaccrual]

Obviously the dynamic changes when the points change, so the games would most definitely have played out differentely.

But, whatever way we slice and dice it, we can"t remove them pesky Scottish B lads from the top of the table.  



Well played guys.

[Chipaccrual]

With a bit more tinkering, I think I"ve found a scoring system that produces a fair result.

If we leave the MTT as it stands, leave the STT scoring as it stands until the top 3, then reward 0pts for third, 20pts for second and 0pts for first, we get the following, much much fairer result

Team	NLHE	PLO	MTT				TOTAL
Wales B	46	42	88				176
Scotland B	6	27	139				172
England B	33	29	100				162
Wales A	29	33	96				158
England C	20	13	113				146
Scotland A	8	12	112				132
Ireland A	29	7	78				114
England A	4	12	94				110

[Hammerite]

Nice work Leigh, I have to agree that whatever method used Scotland B were the deserved winners, I look forward to seeing any other calculation suggestions that the Members put forward for debate.

[Fatcatstu]

I think t point is that all systems are going to be seen as unfair.

At the end of the day it"s the same for every one surely?

[MintTrav]

My suggestions for the a new point structure would be as follows :

STTs 1st place - 3 points,  2nd - 2 points, 3rd - 1 point
MTT 1st  place - 14 points, 2nd - 10 points, 3rd - 6 points, 4th - 4 points, 5th - 3 points, 6th -2 points, 7th - 1 point.

Found one that helps the Irish and Welsh.  If the above had worked the table would have looked like this

Team	NLHE	PLO	MTT				TOTAL
Scotland B	7	4	14				25
England B	2	6	9				17
Ireland A	2	1	14				17
Wales B	7	5	0				12
England A	6	3	2				11
England C	0	6	1				7
Scotland A	3	3	0				6
Wales A	3	2	0				5

We were robbed!

[Outlander]

I think t point is that all systems are going to be seen as unfair.

At the end of the day it"s the same for every one surely?

Agree with the second point, it"s same for everyone and Scotland B were by far the best team on the day and the trophy couldnt have gone to a better bunch of guys... was a privilege to have the chance to play against them.

However think the current system was pretty universally considered unsatisfactory. The lengthy STTs compromised the structure of the MTT and what was already a tournament stacked towards that became a crapshoot after a couple of levels. Our captain"s first words were forget about the STTs, it"ll be decided on the MTT, which was right... so no complaints there, but wouldnt it be a shame if everyone sat out the STTs and just focused on the MTT. Surely not what the tournament is about.

If there are to be STTs, surely they should have a significant impact on the overall result, if not... my vote would be to  dispense with them and have an MTT with a better structure.

Still, when all"s said and done, great day... very worthy winners and whatever the stucture it"s a huge honour to take part.... but better structure could only improve it.

[AMRN]

Ditch the MTT and introduce additional STTs, perhaps with other poker varieties included....

[Paulie_D]

However think the current system was pretty universally considered unsatisfactory. The lengthy STTs compromised the structure of the MTT and what was already a tournament stacked towards that became a crapshoot after a couple of levels.

I disagree with all three points being made here.

Firstly, it was not universally considered unsatisfactory...I liked it. If I had any issue with the "system" it was the "apparent" arbitrary way deciding 1st & 2nd (Gold & Silver) but that had no relation to the points being awarded.

The STTs were only "lengthy" because at last two of them had long HU battles at the end...both of which went over an hour. You can"t legislate against that.

Finally, the MTT was (IMO) in no way a crapshoot...it had a decent structure and clock. The STT certainly had an impact in that having overrun we started with 5k instead of 7k but it still ran for 4 hours IIRC.

If people really want the STT to have more impact then add a couple more points to 1st (12) & 2nd (10) so that there is something to fight over instead of just a single point.

Against that, if the MTT is to have LESS impact them lets award ZERO points for finishing in the bottom half and then 1 - 20 for the MTT.

However, I"ll lay some money that if Leigh runs those numbers it will still have Scotland B winning it.  There is no doubt in my mind that on the day, the best team won it.

[Chipaccrual]

Ditch the MTT and introduce additional STTs, perhaps with other poker varieties included....

Genius

[Outlander]

However, I"ll lay some money that if Leigh runs those numbers it will still have Scotland B winning it.  There is no doubt in my mind that on the day, the best team won it.

Totally echo those sentiments... and that on the day all three medal-winning teams totally deserved to finish where they did.
However two instances stood out for me, Warren Jones" efforts in both STTs and Curly"s efforts in the PLO STT where he came back from a couple of chips early on after a tough beat to win it. But I"m sure there were many more cases during the first two rounds of STTs where people"s efforts deserved to have more bearing on the outcome than they did.

If people really want the STT to have more impact then add a couple more points to 1st (12) & 2nd (10) so that there is something to fight over instead of just a single point.

Against that, if the MTT is to have LESS impact them lets award ZERO points for finishing in the bottom half and then 1 - 20 for the MTT.

Broadly agree with this also but think that with a bit of thought an even better solution could be found.
But no complaints from my part about the medallists, all thoroughly deserved. And everyone knew the stucture before hand so it was what it was. But I certainly feel the points-scoring as it stands could do with improvement and feel the debate can only improve what are great events that are a privilege to be part of.

[Paulie_D]

Warren Jones" efforts in both STTs and Curly"s efforts in the PLO STT where he came back from a couple of chips early on after a tough beat to win it. But I"m sure there were many more cases during the first two rounds of STTs where people"s efforts deserved to have more bearing on the outcome than they did.

If they won then their effort were rewarded perhaps with not enough points but there it is.

I"m unsure how coming back from a tough beat (as would seem to be implied) could even be factored into a points calculation.

Variance will even out...how you could possibly quantify one persons effort over another is, to all intents and purposes, impossible.

[LombBomb]

With a bit more tinkering, I think I"ve found a scoring system that produces a fair result.

If we leave the MTT as it stands, leave the STT scoring as it stands until the top 3, then reward 0pts for third, 20pts for second and 0pts for first, we get the following, much much fairer result

Team	NLHE	PLO	MTT				TOTAL
Wales B	46	42	88				176
Scotland B	6	27	139				172
England B	33	29	100				162
Wales A	29	33	96				158
England C	20	13	113				146
Scotland A	8	12	112				132
Ireland A	29	7	78				114
England A	4	12	94				110

A moot point.  We"d still have won the heads up to take Gold

[MintTrav]

The STTs were only "lengthy" because at last two of them had long HU battles at the end...both of which went over an hour. You can"t legislate against that.

That happens every time. There is always one STT where the HU goes on way longer than the rest, with everyone else waiting.