Genting UK & Ireland Home Int Team Championship

[smasher37]

With a bit more tinkering, I think I"ve found a scoring system that produces a fair result.

If we leave the MTT as it stands, leave the STT scoring as it stands until the top 3, then reward 0pts for third, 20pts for second and 0pts for first, we get the following, much much fairer result

Team	NLHE	PLO	MTT				TOTAL
Wales B	46	42	88				176
Scotland B	6	27	139				172
England B	33	29	100				162
Wales A	29	33	96				158
England C	20	13	113				146
Scotland A	8	12	112				132
Ireland A	29	7	78				114
England A	4	12	94				110

A moot point.  We"d still have won the heads up to take Gold

indeed a moot point!

[AceOnTheRiver]

My points, which I"ll try to keep succinct

Firstly, the best team won. No doubt! VWP & a great set of lads

Secondly. whilst I know people are just having a bit of fun with the "what if" scoring scenarios, they are irrelevant as the teams would have been playing the scoring system in place (Dave Howard"s point about rewarding someone for folding to 20th place is very valid for this discussion, but on Friday that was the system in place so to an extent was the right thing to do

A formula 1 stylee top weighted scoring system makes more sense and would encourage mare creative play (e.g. 15, 12, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1) or awarding the top 3

Similarly (if the MTT remains) I would only award points to the Top 50% as stated elsewhere, once again top loaded

Steve has suggested ditching the MTT altogether and having more Sit n Gos, possibly with more variants? Is there a halfway house option of a 16 person Sit & Go (would need to have teams of 4 or 6 to work)

I LOVED the Heads Up play off idea from the offset and thought it was great in practice too. Keep it.

[AAroddersAA]

Not much to say on top of what I said at the venue, great tournament. The MTT could have a little bit less on it. Loved the heads up play offs for this specific event, keep them for next years Home Nations and ECOAP.

The WCOAP is different though and I would not have thought the heads up play offs should be part of that. The best team should be the world champions.

[SirPercival]

Not much to say on top of what I said at the venue, great tournament. The MTT could have a little bit less on it. Loved the heads up play offs for this specific event, keep them for next years Home Nations and ECOAP.

The WCOAP is different though and I would not have thought the heads up play offs should be part of that. The best team should be the world champions.

Are you suggesting that having the HU play offs means that the best team might not be the world champions?

[Jon MW]

... The best team should be the world champions.

Do you mean like the football World Cup is always won by the best team? (or rugby, cricket, ....)

The only sure way to find out the best is a long and boring league structure, I think it might be better to try and veer even more towards a cup idea. Perhaps an opportunity for some real creativity in the way it"s set up.

For example in the stt"s having the first player to (more than) double there starting stack qualifying towards a Champions STT. As soon as this happens there chips are removed from play the remainder play it out with the winner of this sit n go being given a runners up spot to the same Champions STT. This would have a significant number of points available to those who "cashed" (top half maybe), whilst the remainder of the STT losers would play an MTT with points available to the final table.

It"s difficult to simulate what kind of result that would give, but it"s really just an idea to say that fiddling around with the structure of the team tournaments doesn"t just have to mean looking at the points allocations (for example).

[Chipaccrual]

Or an MTT eliminator, where we automatically lose 10% of the remaining field every hour  

[AceOnTheRiver]

Or an MTT eliminator, where we automatically lose 10% of the remaining field every hour  

only if they are removed by public vote irrespective of chipcounts  

[Jon MW]

Or an MTT eliminator, where we automatically lose 10% of the remaining field every hour  

The 9 players with the lowest chips every break, would be easy enough to put in to practice. Points being awarded depending on which break you reached, with a deep stacked final table with lots of points available at the end

[Paulie_D]

Or an MTT eliminator, where we automatically lose 10% of the remaining field every hour  

The 9 players with the lowest chips every break, would be easy enough to put in to practice. Points being awarded depending on which break you reached, with a deep stacked final table with lots of points available at the end

Would you declare a winner at half-time in a football match just because they were 1-0 up?

An MTT is about the long-haul, playing short-stack ninja poker as necessary and using whatever skills one has to triumph TO THE END.

If, as seems to be the majority view, the MTT is receiving too much weight in the overall result then some points tweakage is desirable, if not, in fact, necessary.

[SirPercival]

... The best team should be the world champions.

Do you mean like the football World Cup is always won by the best team? (or rugby, cricket, ....)

The only sure way to find out the best is a long and boring league structure, I think it might be better to try and veer even more towards a cup idea. Perhaps an opportunity for some real creativity in the way it"s set up.

For example in the stt"s having the first player to (more than) double there starting stack qualifying towards a Champions STT. As soon as this happens there chips are removed from play the remainder play it out with the winner of this sit n go being given a runners up spot to the same Champions STT. This would have a significant number of points available to those who "cashed" (top half maybe), whilst the remainder of the STT losers would play an MTT with points available to the final table.

It"s difficult to simulate what kind of result that would give, but it"s really just an idea to say that fiddling around with the structure of the team tournaments doesn"t just have to mean looking at the points allocations (for example).

I guess Scotland would still win  

[MintTrav]

For example in the stt"s having the first player to (more than) double there starting stack qualifying towards a Champions STT.

New ideas to refresh the format should be encouraged and I think this one has some merit and could be worked on.

Or an MTT eliminator, where we automatically lose 10% of the remaining field every hour  

The 9 players with the lowest chips every break, would be easy enough to put in to practice. Points being awarded depending on which break you reached, with a deep stacked final table with lots of points available at the end

Can you imagine the mayhem with this one, though, with short-stacks repeatedly all-in with ATC, as they would eliminated anyway if they didn"t chip up?
Some would get called down light and others would be complaining that they were eliminated cos their table unsportingly wouldn"t call them, denying them the chance to double up. Would eliminations count as part of the lowest nine?

[MintTrav]

Do you mean like the football World Cup is always won by the best team?

Would you declare a winner at half-time in a football match just because they were 1-0 up?

Football analogy bans for this pair please. This is a poker forum - not every scenario has to be compared with what would happen in football.

[Jon MW]

...

Can you imagine the mayhem with this one, though, ...

I know, it would be brilliant  


And mine wasn"t really a football analogy it was a World Cup analogy to refute that the winner is ever likely to be definitively the best team/person playing.

The mark of the best poker players is their ability to react to changing circumstances, as long as whatever innovation was introduced didn"t have too high an element of luck involved it would be just challenge those involved to think outside their comfort zones.

[Paulie_D]

For example in the stt"s having the first player to (more than) double there starting stack qualifying towards a Champions STT.

New ideas to refresh the format should be encouraged and I think this one has some merit and could be worked on.

This is a TERRIBLE idea...and drastically adds too much weight to the "luck factor"

[AAroddersAA]

Are you suggesting that having the HU play offs means that the best team might not be the world champions?

I am saying that the heads up play off makes it even less likely than it already is yes

... The best team should be the world champions.

Do you mean like the football World Cup is always won by the best team? (or rugby, cricket, ....)

No, like the best team normally wins the league.

We can"t really have a league long enough in poker to ensure the luck factor is removed but we can try to minimize it. I would say in my opinion all of the idea in this thread would increase the luck factor over the existing format.

For example in the stt"s having the first player to (more than) double there starting stack qualifying towards a Champions STT.

There is something in this I think, but would it not make more sense for the STT winners to be put into the champions STT? This would help iron out the fact that the MTT carries too much weight. Would need some work but there might well be something in it.

I do think that all of the above fun ideas could be tried in next years Home Nations as they would be fun and add to that side of it but the event at DTD in March is about APAT's best players doing their thing (imo). Most of the above ideas would make the tournament more fun to watch but I am guessing those playing it will want the best format giving the maximum possible edge to the better players.