APAT National Online Cup - Enter A Team

[GiMac]

We have listened to the views of everyone on this thread and also those that have contacted us over the past few days.

I"ve said it before and I"ll say it again, that"s what makes APAT the best.

Not sure where anyone has said they are against team play (you can call it soft play all you want its just sensible team play in reality) yet it"s now been outlawed.  

But two players have now been reinstated having been disqualified for doing the same as almost every other team in the competition.

Ok to clarify apparently it has always been outlawed and we are all cheats, or are being made to feel like cheats.  

[MonkeyMagic]

I love the idea about there being simultaneous tournaments with one player from each team.  But as it is now, I guess there will be more watchful eyes in the last two weeks, and that"s good.

[GiMac]

I love the idea about there being simultaneous tournaments with one player from each team.  But as it is now, I guess there will be more watchful eyes in the last two weeks, and that"s good.

Not sure what you mean, after all we are all playing in a game with supposedly some of the most observant people who can read plays, moves, etc, etc. Personally I could have reported 30 plus players for chip dumping/soft playing their team mates, but I accepted it was part of a TEAM game. Should be funny to see what all these supposedly watchful eyes see or think they see going forward cos, to be honest, most of them couldn"t see further than the nose on their own faces.  

[MonkeyMagic]

Well, if there"s no behind-the-scenes collusion going on, I"d be mighty surprised.  When those people then do the moves that increase their chances of taking chips, that will be more readily seen by someone that can see the cards face up, than it can by the players.  It"s not even like people living in the same town coincidentally.  You can see instantly who has an interest in each other, especially with only 4 teams.  Yes, it"s a team game, but telling each other your cards is not "just part of it".  Of course, some might disagree, and have arguments for it.  I doubt anyone will present them here though, will they?

[HOLDorFOLD]

We are aware that there may have been some confusion regarding what is allowed and what is not allowed within these team games, to the extent that players have interpreted the rules differentely.

To make it very clear, these tournament are run as per the network rules that every player signs up to when they open an account.  We have no control over these rules, and any breaking of these rules gets dealt with via the network compliance team.

There is still confusion over what is allowed and what is not allowed. Is soft play/team play now outlawed completely? At what stage does soft play become chip dumping? Would it have been ok for player A to fold to player B"s 30 chip bet rather than just open fold? We clearly need guidance rather than just a reminder that we agreed to some rules that none of us can remember.

Very much this ... can something clear about team rules be posted before Sunday"s match?

Have been thinking about possible scenarios mentioned ... if two team members are left in a hand, and they now check it down for "fear" of being accused of chip dumping/soft play if the shorter of the two shoves over the top and forces a fold from team member ... will the "check it down scenario not also be deemed as soft play??

I mean where are the lines set now?

Are we to view this Sunday"s match as six individuals playing 6 individual games for fear of their play being scrutinized as "unfair" etc ... where is the team element now?

Garbled post, tired, but clearly as there is now confusion as to what the rules are for a "team" event then is it possible to have something posted here that all four remaining teams can read and agree to (by posting on here that have have read and understood it) before Sunday"s match?

I know some people may say "well it"s basic logic and common sense (some have gone as far s saying don"t be so obvious when soft playing) but judging by the responses I don"t think it is clear and logical as to what is exceptable play for a team event now  

Cheers

[Fatcatstu]

Ok, as someone looking from the outside at this IMPARTIALLY (there hasnt been any of that so far, most of what has been posted has been bordering on Hysteria) I would say that Leigh has made it fairly clear that APAT are against OBVIOUS foul play ie the chip dumping example shown earlier.

Dont be OBVIOUS and there wont be an issue.

Am i wrong?

[Laxie]

From another outsider looking in - you can"t honestly expect Des and Co. to be seen openly encouraging what"s being discussed here?!  They"re trying to run a poker site.  What"s being discussed is absolutely against network rules regardless of what we think and their hands are tied.  

[GiMac]

Well, if there"s no behind-the-scenes collusion going on, I"d be mighty surprised.  When those people then do the moves that increase their chances of taking chips, that will be more readily seen by someone that can see the cards face up, than it can by the players.  It"s not even like people living in the same town coincidentally.  You can see instantly who has an interest in each other, especially with only 4 teams.  Yes, it"s a team game, but telling each other your cards is not "just part of it".  Of course, some might disagree, and have arguments for it.  I doubt anyone will present them here though, will they?

Please tell me where anyone has said that? I think you will find nobody has so stop putting words in people"s mouths. We are talking about soft play or chip dumping, you don"t need to know each others cards to do that.  

[suzanne]

Ok, as someone looking from the outside at this IMPARTIALLY (there hasnt been any of that so far, most of what has been posted has been bordering on Hysteria) I would say that Leigh has made it fairly clear that APAT are against OBVIOUS foul play ie the chip dumping example shown earlier.

Dont be OBVIOUS and there wont be an issue.

Am i wrong?

Thats what we need to know, not just for the online cup but for league games too. Where do you draw the line?

The hand shown is chip dumping to the extreme but say for example player number 1 is on the button and shoves a short stack into a team members big blind who has loads of chips...he/she is going to fold aces there (or should) which is right and happens probably more than we should admit. So then sb decides to complain, they look into the hand and see what bb had and ban him/her. It was correct team play!!

My disagreement is not aimed at Apat at all. As I said earlier team games are on the rise as they are fun, the NETWORK rules need to be changed to accommodate this. This wont happen by sitting back and saying nothing.

[AAroddersAA]

I am also wondering if something can be done for future team events, these events are unique in that you actually want to help other people in the same game. The game is also password protected so anybody entering knows the situation. Maybe speak to the network and see if they are able to give us some sort of dispensation on the team events. If it can"t be done fine but it would be nice to be able to play the event optimally from a team event stand point.

I do understand the gaming commission laws that BOSS and apat have to follow and see why this may not be possible but must be worth asking surely?

[SHAKIRA SHAKIRA]

[Fatcatstu]

This is ridiculous.

How about we let APAT run APAT's competitions as APAT see fit?

They have never done anything in the past to prove that they cant do things in a fair and even handed manner, quite why people are questioning them now is well and truely beyond me.

[GiMac]

This is ridiculous.

How about we let APAT run APAT's competitions as APAT see fit?

They have never done anything in the past to prove that they cant do things in a fair and even handed manner, quite why people are questioning them now is well and truely beyond me.

[ x] totally missing the point

[Fatcatstu]

This is ridiculous.

How about we let APAT run APAT's competitions as APAT see fit?

They have never done anything in the past to prove that they cant do things in a fair and even handed manner, quite why people are questioning them now is well and truely beyond me.

[ x] totally missing the point

sigh

[AMRN]

If I"d known it was John Murray"s team that was in question, I wouldn"t have questioned the DQ so vociferously  



Seriously though, if someone from the affected team is going to make a statement like this on the APAT forum, I don"t understand the need to disguise it by creating a new forum account to make the post anonymous. If anything, surely the team statement should just come from the team captain in an open post (like everything else that ever happens on a public forum).  We"re all friends on here.