Butchering it at APAT Team Champs

[pokerpops]

I"m really unsure about this hand from both sides of the table

a bit of history first

I had four players to my left who were very capable of folding pre flop and I did my best to take advantage of this. I got resistance from Paulie_D in one hand where I raised   , he 3bet, I 4bet, he 5bet and I opted to flat with a view to folding on any board that didn"t have either two Kings, three diamonds, a flopped straight or some very tempting combo of the three.   didn"t meet any of those requirements. Paulie showed his AA

I had 3bet Glenn Laming when he opened for the 4th or 5th time in the first orbit and had to show down my deuce four when it hit runner runner to make a straight.

Most of the pots I"ve won haven"t been to showdown, but those that I"ve won at showdown have been with "ahem" less than premium hands. The deuce four, and a rather splendid Q6 that flopped a pair (I had raised pre and bet this flop), I checked the A turn as did my opponent, and bet the Q river to get paid. The deuce four hand had a similar bet flop, check turn, bet river flow.

It was, by no means, a soft table. But I was feeling comfortable on it and chipping up pretty well

So, to the hand in question.
Blinds 100/200/25

Button is seat 9
folds to me in seat 6
I open [xx] to 450 from around 28k
BB min 3bets to 700 from around 25k
folds to me
I pull back the two 25 chips and throw in a 500 intending to min raise back, as I do so my brain recalculates and I realise that a min 4bet is 950 so throw the two 25s back in
BB asks for a ruling as to whether I have raised or called. It"s agreed that the raise stands, he flats.

Flop  (2350)
He checks - I bet 1400, he calls
Turn (5150)   (I think - it may have been something else totally blank)
he checks, I check behind
River (5150)  

he checks....
I"m very sure his min 3bet isn"t with anything massive here. His attempt to avoid having to call a raise pre suggests he was just showing resistance to my perceived aggression. I think he can have an Ace, but it"s not AK/AQ/AJ/A10. He leads with all of those on the flop turn and river. He can have a pair in the 55 -99 range, I am pretty sure he doesn"t have 10 10 he leads that on the river to avoid a check behind.


BUT. I don"t have an Ace. I do have a queen...

Sigh give up? Bet? If yes, how much.


I"m anticipating mostly "sigh give up" answers.

[Fatcatstu]

I had four players to my left who were very capable of folding pre flop and I did my best to take advantage of this. I got resistance from Paulie_D in one hand where I raised   , he 3bet,

Fold at this point.

Hand in question, there is 5k in the middle and the blinds are at 100/200. Why put anymore chips in when you are only getting called if you are beat, and if you are winning you take down a sizeable pot in a deepstack competition with loads of play left? But you know this anyway...

[Chipaccrual]

Not sure on the hand, but I think the ruling is out of this world.  

[pokerpops]

Not sure on the hand, but I think the ruling is out of this world.  

Ruling was perfect.

Shouldn"t have been needed tbh - I should have 4bet bigger, his "click back" smelt wrong when he did it, and smelt even more dodgy when he tried to get my raise cancelled.

[AMRN]

You"ve got showdown value with third pair, and there are so many marginal hands that he check/calls with that have you beat.   I like to bet for thin value, but in this spot I probably just check behind and expect to win some of the time at showdown, and to lose to a random ace a lot of the time.  After the line of check/call on flop, the check/check on turn, I can"t see him check/folding the river - he could easily hero call with a very marginal hand... and still have you beat.  

[PHIL_TC]

You"ve got 3rd pair.. Dave you normally bet 5th pair for value   I"m guessing you put out a bet but I"d be checking behind here personally, see if win, take a slurp of my Guinness either way and move on.. easier spots to come I"m sure x

[fatpants]

Try doing the hh correctly and the betting and position!  Re submit when correct and ask questions!  Thats if its the hand with me!

[pokerpops]

Try doing the hh correctly and the betting and position!  Re submit when correct and ask questions!  Thats if its the hand with me!

My memory isn"t what it was, but it"s obviously the hand with you, were you on the button?

[fatpants]

yeah i was button you made it 450 i made it 700 you made it 900 then 950, flop check check, turn you led i flat, river you bet i call.


The reason for the ruling was because i asked the dealer if it was a raise when you put 900 in and then others starting putting there ore in and tbh when im in a hand dont want to get involved with discussions etc as it can influence the hand so i just asked the dealer to tell me if it was a raise or a call so we could get on with the hand!

[WYoung83]

Hard for you to rep a 10 or set, just check now.

Doesnt make any sense to me now sorry. Just read the villians take on it, hand has completely changed.

Right i got it in my head now. I think thats a pretty bad bet on the river with 3rd pair.

[pokerpops]

yeah i was button you made it 450 i made it 700 you made it 900 then 950, flop check check, turn you led i flat, river you bet i call.


The reason for the ruling was because i asked the dealer if it was a raise when you put 900 in and then others starting putting there ore in and tbh when im in a hand dont want to get involved with discussions etc as it can influence the hand so i just asked the dealer to tell me if it was a raise or a call so we could get on with the hand!

You on button makes more sense. It was always a raise, it should have been a proper one, your min-click was either a monster or nowt in my mind. Should have stuck it in your eye!

[fatpants]

Hand plays out totally different if you make it a propper raise tbh!  Instead it cost you ~4k  You had been active with any 2 and hadnt had much played back at you so i just thought i would.  Was pretty sure my A was good by the time we got to the river apart from if you had luckboxed the st8 with a 10.  

[pokerpops]

Hand plays out totally different if you make it a propper raise tbh!  Instead it cost you ~4k  You had been active with any 2 and hadnt had much played back at you so i just thought i would.  Was pretty sure my A was good by the time we got to the river apart from if you had luckboxed the st8 with a 10. 

Yeah - although I hadn"t just played any 2, it seemed every time we got to showdown it was with an "any 2" type of hand.
I flopped a couple of sets and couldn"t get a river call despite getting some value on flop and turn; and had a couple of very good TPTK hands where again I didn"t get called on the river.

meh - nice call at the end and unlucky not to go deeper. I"ll just have to make sure I have QQ+ next time we play this hand out...

[fatpants]

Hand plays out totally different if you make it a propper raise tbh!  Instead it cost you ~4k  You had been active with any 2 and hadnt had much played back at you so i just thought i would.  Was pretty sure my A was good by the time we got to the river apart from if you had luckboxed the st8 with a 10. 

Yeah - although I hadn"t just played any 2, it seemed every time we got to showdown it was with an "any 2" type of hand.
I flopped a couple of sets and couldn"t get a river call despite getting some value on flop and turn; and had a couple of very good TPTK hands where again I didn"t get called on the river.

meh - nice call at the end and unlucky not to go deeper. I"ll just have to make sure I have QQ+ next time we play this hand out...

The hands that had gone to showdown and also from the inside info i had recived i knew you were very capable of playing any 2 but the way the hand was played just thought it was more of a bluff !  Was pretty dissopointed not to go further to tbh 2 hands that fkd me over big style on day 2 and i go from ~100k to 3k   but hey ho pretty happy with the way i played!  WP and gl in future events maybe we will meet at the tbls again!

[George2Loose]

This is a case of live by the sword and die by it.

I, for some reason, have a really dirty image too. In this spot I would just try and get to showdown. He"s not folding any bluff catchers simply because of your rep. U just have to have it sometimes and this is a spot where if you do have it you"re getting paid.

Have also heard the hand history re the 42 hand and tbh I don"t think it"s a great play post antes lets alone pre. 3 bet squeezing an utg opener out of the sb when they know who u are isn"t the best idea. Not really great against randoms either