Season Seven Discussion (Pre-Announcement)

[suzanne]

Have I mentioned that there has never been a game in the South West?  

Bristol please x

[Waz1892]

Des,  On the points you"ve raised as to find out members views - my thoughts opinions.

Buy ins - Stay at £75?  Increase?  Decrease?  Side events?
Perfect at £75

Festival style three and four day events - good? or too long?
event lengths I think are also just right, as most 3-4 days are over a bank holiday or easter type seasons, which while is "family" time fits with the extra time from work/school situ.  My only other point on times I refer to my previous comment in Day 2 should be an earlier start time.

Timing - An event every month, every two months, or four big festivals every year maybe?
I love every month, although I don"t make it every month, just having the option to have is good.  2nd option would be every 2 months.  4 APAT's per year seems like denying a child its breast milk!  

WCOAP - Should it extend further with the addition of two day side events and an even larger main event?
with 4 years behind it I think, again its spot on.   I have no idea on side events as I don"t play them to warrant the knowledge to comment on them and structures within.  Large main event sounds good, as close to a world Series as I"ll get, so yes please!

Team events - Should we invite multiple teams from same communities? structure?
As judged by the recent team event they are enough single communities that wish to play these that the need to have Team b, and c doesn"t seem right.  If space allows then yes sure - maybe on some kind of rota type thing.

Formats - Should we be looking to include anything new?  Should we run one of the nationals in a different format, outside of the WCOAP and ECOAP?
Anything new I think, personally should be done as a side event as the main nationals are the bread and butter of the Tour.

Registration - Thoughts on satellites, direct buy in via client, generic satellite packages versus specific satellite packages, should satellites packages include a contribution towards travel and hotel?
sats to nationals are good and allows everyone the chance, if the £75 is out of range, so you"re covering the whole of the membership at all times.  direct buy in through a poker client is good, as long as we don"t keep switching.  Purely through APAT, I"ve now got BlueSq, Betfair, 888, Whill, Genting and of course APAT.co.uk - all of which I rarely play on now (bar the last  )  Packages, how many people as a % would enjoy the hotel/travel aspect? would this attract more to the sats - which I assume is the aim?

Seat reservation - Should this continue?  If so, why?  If we added a Paypal button to enable players to pay the 10% fee upfront, would this work?  So players not taking up their reservation would lose the fee element of their buy in?
This is good for reg forum users, however (I"m assuming) the majority of the membership aren"t reg users, this counts them out so to speak.  Depends on what the aim is?  To drive more traffic to the site, or to make it easier for admin purposes.  The 10% downpayment would result in a smaller amount of pull outs you"d think, so if this is a headaches that needs resolving, then fine.  If not, then I don"t see the benefit.

Locations - Overseas?  New locations?  For example we could take the ECOAP to Western Europe.  Would players come, if destination was cheap and outside of holiday periods?
New locations always nice of course, but understand the limits in some places. 

Overseas - what is the aim? A chance for UK players to have a jolly few days out, or APAT brand awareness?

The few that go over seem to have a cracking time, so how can you deny them that.  From an APAT sense, its about brand awareness and spreading the word.  My question, therefore would be after the events in Europe, what is the take up on forum memberships from those countries?  or online new members on apat.co.uk?  And from a overall poker community sense, Does the casino that held it report a rise in new players?  If we don"t know, we should know surely, otherwise how do we know its works and is worth the cost/organisation

Commercial - To increase our budgets we might ask you to qualify for events at a third party site, or join us for a crazy night of blackjack or slots tournaments.  Is this acceptable, not acceptable, would stop you playing, etc?
don"t mind trying qualifying as such -only negative is you"re then separating the good players who will over the season always qualify, so while getting a high class of field for the event itself, it could become "elite-tist"?  
edit - re-read this bit, i would assume that if you don"t qualify then you"d still be able to buy in direct, so it wouldn"t be as above. Not keen on Blackjack/slots this is a POKER site/community/forum/tour

Awards - Further develop the medals?  More bracelets?  Differentiate between live and online event awards?  Added value?
3 medals is great.  you could look at a FT award of some sort?  these are tough tournaments, FT"s are not easy.  A Wooden-spoon type gesture to first out would be new?!

Merchandise - Should we sell stuff?  Shirts, cards, chip set, card protectors?  How deep should the range be?  High quality or cheap?  Would you buy high resolution pictures of yourself at events, branded with the event name, APAT logo and in an APAT sleeve?
Absolutely!  Shirts, Protectors, Hats all things people can wear when playing other tournaments, so brand awareness in the poker environment can only be a good thing.  Personally I wouldn"t buy the photos.

Just my thoughts.

[KarmaDope]

I"d like to point out to Wax that the wooden spoon idea for first out was implemented by JAPAT in Vegas 2011. Paul Gildea was the unlucky "winner"!

[Waz1892]

I"d like to point out to Wax that the wooden spoon idea for first out was implemented by JAPAT in Vegas 2011. Paul Gildea was the unlucky "winner"!

I"ve been called some stuff before -  

No copyright infringements were intended.  

[Paulie_D]

Have I mentioned that there has never been a game in the South West?  

Bristol please x

Yeah...cos Wales isn"t in the SW.

Bristol / Wales all the same innit?  

[SirPercival]

I think there should be a Men"s event. Women are obviously way better at the mind games and therefore have a significant advantage in poker. It"s therefore unfair that we have to compete in the same events.

In track and field we have the Men"s 100m and the Women"s 100m because of the physical differences, so why not in poker?

I realise this might not be in-keeping with the APAT ethos of inclusiveness and understand if it"s a non starter for that reason.

[Paulie_D]

I think there should be a Men"s event. Women are obviously way better at the mind games and therefore have a significant advantage in poker. It"s therefore unfair that we have to compete in the same events.

In track and field we have the Men"s 100m and the Women"s 100m because of the physical differences, so why not in poker?

I realise this might not be in-keeping with the APAT ethos of inclusiveness and understand if it"s a non starter for that reason.

+1

Let"s put "em back in the kitchen where they belong.  

[KarmaDope]

I"d like to point out to Wax that the wooden spoon idea for first out was implemented by JAPAT in Vegas 2011. Paul Gildea was the unlucky "winner"!

I"ve been called some stuff before -  

No copyright infringements were intended.  

Oops...damn autocorrect on my phone!

[Laxie]

I think there should be a Men"s event. Women are obviously way better at the mind games and therefore have a significant advantage in poker. It"s therefore unfair that we have to compete in the same events.

In track and field we have the Men"s 100m and the Women"s 100m because of the physical differences, so why not in poker?

I realise this might not be in-keeping with the APAT ethos of inclusiveness and understand if it"s a non starter for that reason.

+1

Let"s put "em back in the kitchen where they belong.  

If I spend much more time in the kitchen, there won"t be an exercise on the planet that will help me.

[Curlarge]

I think there should be a Men"s event. Women are obviously way better at the mind games and therefore have a significant advantage in poker. It"s therefore unfair that we have to compete in the same events.

In track and field we have the Men"s 100m and the Women"s 100m because of the physical differences, so why not in poker?

I realise this might not be in-keeping with the APAT ethos of inclusiveness and understand if it"s a non starter for that reason.

+1

Let"s put "em back in the kitchen where they belong.  

If I spend much more time in the kitchen, there won"t be an exercise on the planet that will help me.

No sugar in mine thanks

[Joker161]

I tend to agree with the point about the late start on Sundays, but I know it"s hard to get the casinos to open any earlier.

I love the live events, but really struggle to get to them because, for me, they need to be in school holidays. Clearly it"s only me who cares about this, so don"t let it affect your planning (too much ). Having said that, I"m missing the Worlds this year because my partner booked a holiday before I had the chance to tell her about the dates. Annoying!

Oh, and Brighton. Obviously thinking of everyone there.

[Sugar_Free]

Buy ins - Stay at £75?  Increase?  Decrease?  Side events?

£75 + 10% is spot on IMO. Side events have varied from place to place, I"d much rather see £30+10% than the £20+25%!! that we had at Coventry. I"d also like to see more variety rather than NLHE or PLO - I know there was 7CS at Stoke but having registered for the 8.30 game I had to unregister when it started at 7. As we saw in the recent Bunch of Fives games, there are lots of APAT members interested in learning new variants and this would be the ideal stage to do it live for small stakes.

Festival style three and four day events - good? or too long?

Can"t see that I"ll ever be able to play the ECOAP if it stays where it is on the calendar so I can"t really comment, WCOAP is causing its own problems due to its popularity.

Timing - An event every month, every two months, or four big festivals every year maybe?

Personally I"d like to see one every 6 weeks, alongside the two main festivals.

WCOAP - Should it extend further with the addition of two day side events and an even larger main event?

I think this is the toughest question on the list. From a personal point of view I would love to play all the listed tournaments, other than the open and the cash, along with a few others that aren"t listed. However, to accommodate this along with all the other people who haven"t been able to get in, the WCOAP would have to be at least a fortnight long. Add to that the problem of getting time off work, and even more difficult, time out of the family home, and that just isn"t happening. Only other option is, rather than having a festival with a taster of a few games, is split it over 3 or 4 weekends where we get a full game of each variant with no limits on places and just the ME at Easter along with a few minor non-bracelet side events.

Team events - Should we invite multiple teams from same communities? structure?

If we were as over-subscribed as reported then definitely not. I also think that the league winners should maybe get an entry but not 2nd and 3rd. I thought the structure this year was excellent and meant the best team won, not just the team that got 2 to the FT.

Formats - Should we be looking to include anything new?  Should we run one of the nationals in a different format, outside of the WCOAP and ECOAP?

Not sure what you mean. I think we should bring back the thing that really set us apart from every other game.....the applause.

Registration - Thoughts on satellites, direct buy in via client, generic satellite packages versus specific satellite packages, should satellites packages include a contribution towards travel and hotel?

I like seat-only satellites. Travel and hotel costs would vary too much from player to player. Unless it was the Western Europe thing you speak of.

Seat reservation - Should this continue?  If so, why?  If we added a Paypal button to enable players to pay the 10% fee upfront, would this work?  So players not taking up their reservation would lose the fee element of their buy in?

I"d like to go back to the days where we paid the whole lot in advance

Locations - Overseas?  New locations?  For example we could take the ECOAP to Western Europe.  Would players come, if destination was cheap and outside of holiday periods?

Loving the sound of this.

Commercial - To increase our budgets we might ask you to qualify for events at a third party site, or join us for a crazy night of blackjack or slots tournaments.  Is this acceptable, not acceptable, would stop you playing, etc?

Does qualify mean satellite? If so then that"s fine by me provided it"s not WH after last year. Blackjack & Slots tournaments - not for me thanks.

Awards - Further develop the medals?  More bracelets?  Differentiate between live and online event awards?  Added value?

Medals all seem fine, if you ever get them ahem. Bracelets for World Champions sounds great. As for differentiating between live and online....hell yeah. Huge difference between a £30, 60 runner game online and £75, 150-200 runner game live (and I don"t just mean the ability to wear nothing but pants) and the medals should reflect that.

Merchandise - Should we sell stuff?  Shirts, cards, chip set, card protectors?  How deep should the range be?  High quality or cheap?  Would you buy high resolution pictures of yourself at events, branded with the event name, APAT logo and in an APAT sleeve?

I"d be interested in shirts, hoodies or a real quality deck of cards. Photos? No. Did Asa put you up to this?

Other points:

The increase from 10K to 15K in S6 has been brilliant and the structure re-jig that went with it has made for an excellent game. Like others, I would like to see the 1pm Sunday start that was meant to go with it enforced.

I was going to make a plea that one of the festival weekends was moved away from a Bank Holiday weekend so that those of us with families could be at home for either Easter or August BH. I can see now that that is never going to work as, if anything, these need to take up more days, not less.
I will therefore make the plea that all other National weekends are on "normal" weekends. I"m sure I"m not alone when I go missing for a "Des" weekend, the wife only notices I"m not there on the days she has off (Sat and Sun), whereas if she"s off on the BH Monday or even the Friday as well, I"m in for some grief.

I did have a few extra points to make but they have slipped away from me for now.

[suzanne]

"The only other suggestion I have for the Worlds is a Women"s event, as we really don"t have that many Women on the tour and since the Betfred tour died, I think that"s a bit of an untapped market." from sharples

Actually Adam has made a valid point here, the Betfred tour was very popular and nothing has come along to replace it. It could in theory be quite popular as it introduced women to live poker in a friendly environment. If it had not been for this tour I never would have ventured into playing live, never mind setting foot into a casino!!

I am sure there are lots of guys who play Apat and leave their wives/girlfriends at home who would love to tag along, perhaps they have dabbled online but dont feel brave enough to play live. A Womens event would be perfect to introduce them to the game.

PS If you did do this it would need to be strictly supervised...perhaps a £500 buyin with a discount to £50 for women?  

I would like to volunteer to inspect credentials for any possible imposters

Dawn please add photo

Have I mentioned that there has never been a game in the South West?  

Bristol please x

Yeah...cos Wales isn"t in the SW.

Bristol / Wales all the same innit?  

LOL joking apart I think this is probably why Bristol has never been considered before....that and the lack of a venue with decent management. The Gala has successfully covered Oneway live tournaments and a UKIPT tour which shows it is more than capable of handling us lot. It has an excellent airport (easyjet) with buses running regular straight into town BUT more important...no fecker round here knows who Apat are!!!
 
Seriously, I am not kidding. I dont play live very much but when i do play at the Gala I am asked what my card protector is as no one knows!! Some will say..ahhh yes I have read about them but most say nope..never heard of them.

Before Apat starts thinking about spreading the word abroad I think maybe you should go to areas in UK where you havent been.  (PS another one in Lloret and I will deffo be there).

[Swinebag]

Pretty happy with the set up this season, even if I could only make 1 event.

Live - Would keep it pretty much the same with a few changes.

- mix the format of Main events. Have most of them NLHE, but maybe throw in a headhunter, 6 max, and (dare i say it)PLO. These are pretty popular variants so would have little trouble getting filled up. Amateur poker tours are ten a penny now and whilst APAT is easily the best, I think something different needs to be done to help it stand out from other amateur tours/events.
- lose the Ireland leg. Just doesn"t get the interest it used to.
- can we have a NW (stoke doesn"t count) leg and a SW leg too.

Online - ....

- firstly, the Boss network, sadly, seems to be dying. I would follow DTD onto ipoker.
- online festivals are good but there should be added value for ME winners. The number of runners for these have been <100 for ages now.
- scrap the online regional league. Despite numerous revamps, it is pretty much won by the team with the most runners. Team poker is generally a flawed concept IMO. Whilst it is fine for one offs like the live team events that are run, basing a whole season on a team competition is too much. If we have to have a team concept then the online cup is a much better concept.

Whatever is announced though, I will support as well as I can.

[nosey-p]

£75 is bang on the money although I would not object to £100 but this would mean that the Worlds and Europe games would be £150 and that would be too much.

Need more variation for the Sunday game. I"m not talking about Stud or Razz (I don"t think this would sell out) but NL 6 max, shootout, win the button etc.

More live games they are the more choice we have (has long as we don"t become over played and become just another casino game rather than an event, does that make sense?)    

The team game in Luton is one of the highlights of the season, it brings allot of new people to APAT but the location needs to be more central. Plus if this was earlier in the season , it would promote APAT on all the forums for the coming season. How many new people join APAT due the this game?  

Leeds/Sheffield have some very good casinos that can handle a 200+ runner tournament, it"s about time we had a game hear.

Start time to be earlier on the Saturday and Sunday. I know this is dependent on the casino and people have to travel and book in at hotels but if this could be achieved then it may lead to a bigger starting stack or a hour clock.

On-line needs a big overhaul but will save this for another day.