Season Seven Discussion (Pre-Announcement)

[Fatcatstu]

You want to make a game where Laxie is APAT's ambassador? My lord.  

[Des]

Some great feedback in this thread everyone.  Thanks everyone and please keep it coming. 

To keep you updated. 

We have a draft S7 schedule and set of dates on the table and we"re now starting the process of finalising with the venues, the majority of whom will be very straight forward.

Our Wembley Stadium date is confirmed as Saturday & Sunday June 1st & 2nd, with both days starting at 1.30pm.  We"ll be on the pitch with the pros, so it should be something completely different for all of us.

We"re looking to have an Amateur Championship date towards the end of June also, so not too long to wait for those of you who may not be able to make Wembley.

[Laxie]

You want to make a game where Laxie is APAT's ambassador? My lord.  

Oi...I"d be excellent at that!  Where"s me whip ffs?!  

[MacToFront]

Some very fair anti-ladies-event comments from a couple of posters. I quite agree that this is not tennis and should be a sex-less game, I suppose my view may be a bit slanted by having a missus who"s a bit of a poker player who only really dabbles to make me happy. But, of course, that"s no different from having a poker playing female with a non-poker playing boyfriend. And isn"t it unenforcable anyway, legally? I think there"s a bloke or two somewhere who have entered supposed women-only events to make a point and it"s caused a bit of controversy. Anyway, if I do manage to get her along for a future event, she"ll probably beat me anyway; she usually does when we have a home game!
I"m not necessarily back tracking on what I said before (a la Stadtler and Waldorf), but I suppose I"m just saying that I"m not that fussed either way really.

[Fatcatstu]

You want to make a game where Laxie is APAT's ambassador? My lord.  

Oi...I"d be excellent at that!  Where"s me whip ffs?!  

Oooh.... whips.... there may be potential yet!

[4KSuited]

Buy ins - Stay at £75?  Increase?  Decrease?  Side events?
Not qualified to comment

Festival style three and four day events - good? or too long?
Good as is.

Timing - An event every month, every two months, or four big festivals every year maybe?
Every month is good. Locations are obv. a key issue, as everyone wants one close to home. I agree that Luton is a hole (and poorly run IMO), it"s my nearest atm. You may want to have a look at the new G in Reading. They have the size and are keen to please.

WCOAP - Should it extend further with the addition of two day side events and an even larger main event?
I have limited experience outside NLHE, but would def try PLO event next time. Only issue is that with more 2-dayers it becomes more difficult to plan the diary and therefore not want to commit to pre-reg...

Team events - Should we invite multiple teams from same communities? structure?
I played this for the first time in January and loved it. Given that it"s so hard to get a team in, I was a little surprised that there were so-called "multiple entries". Personally I think there would be more credibility & kudos if only one team per community. NB: I must declare self-interest here, as I operate a private FB poker forum, and I"d LOVE to enter a team under the "Poker Buddies" banner.

Formats - Should we be looking to include anything new?  Should we run one of the nationals in a different format, outside of the WCOAP and ECOAP?
I thought there was something for everyone - only issue was the inability to play them all!

Registration - Thoughts on satellites, direct buy in via client, generic satellite packages versus specific satellite packages, should satellites packages include a contribution towards travel and hotel?
Sats are an excellent idea; with special "package" sats run separately for those who want that option. I am also frustrated by the regular changing of the online administrator - I didn"t play the last tournament on William Hill for that reason FWIW. As mentioned earlier, pre-reg will become a trickier issue with the intro of more 2-day events. I"m happy to reg here & "pay at the door".

Seat reservation - Should this continue?  If so, why?  If we added a Paypal button to enable players to pay the 10% fee upfront, would this work?  So players not taking up their reservation would lose the fee element of their buy in?
Agree with Waz

Locations - Overseas?  New locations?  For example we could take the ECOAP to Western Europe.  Would players come, if destination was cheap and outside of holiday periods?
I love the idea, and it sounds like there are some low-cost venues out there. The issue of APAT's objective/s is a separate matter. What have the previous international events achieved? Was it worthwhile, or has there been enough learning to ensure that there will be sufficient benefit next time?

Commercial - To increase our budgets we might ask you to qualify for events at a third party site, or join us for a crazy night of blackjack or slots tournaments.  Is this acceptable, not acceptable, would stop you playing, etc?
Not interested in Blackjack or slots & not sure that this is a direction APAT should be taking for brand integrity reasons. 3rd party site qual is ok - depending on the site (see prev comment)

Awards - Further develop the medals?  More bracelets?  Differentiate between live and online event awards?  Added value?
I defer to others on this one

Merchandise - Should we sell stuff?  Shirts, cards, chip set, card protectors?  How deep should the range be?  High quality or cheap?  Would you buy high resolution pictures of yourself at events, branded with the event name, APAT logo and in an APAT sleeve?
Some research should be done on this; I would start with just the "best sellers" as per market intelligence, then roll out if demand dictates. I wouldn"t do cheap (brand integrity again). Photos - yes, as long as I look like George Clooney.

[Luthee13]

Would love to see a ladies event at the WCOAP/ECOAP.
Been mentioned before that there is a huge gap, and i think grabbing hold of the market could be really good.
The standard of the ladies game is very solid in the UK scene, and it would encourage people to get the GFs playing, less arguements when you book the time off and a safe environment for new faces to learn with no "stigma" or "pressure"

So, do we really need a seperate event? xxx

- I also like the idea of a womens event. My missus knows the rules, has played a bit and even won a few homes games and a couple of pub games, but playing live is still a bit scary for her and I think a ladies event might make her more likely to come along to a future event.

taking men out of the equation shouldn"t change this tho, like Mich says, some of the most aggro poker players i"ve come across have been women and some of the nicest people I know are men from APAT...it"s a strange suggestion this one, imo...xxx

Please do not do this .... ever.

Poker is one of the rare sports/activities that women can compete equally on the same footing as men without discrimination, and more importantly without reduced prize monies! (aka snooker etc). After years of women crying out for acceptance in the mainstream and to not be discriminated against why oh why would you want to create an event that really has no reason to be a single sex game. 

Women only Poker event"s tilt the hell out of me, but more so because there is no equal "men"s only" event to run alongside.

There is no reason why women would be at any disadvantage whatsoever playing poker against a man.

The poker environment is like any other "unknown" environment, at first it can appear to be intimidating but actually isn"t. I personally have found that the nicest people I have met have been via the poker circuit (I entered the live circuit as a lone female having no idea what to expect) ... and like other environments, yes there can be the odd rude man although i have to say the most scarey rude people I have encountered across the felt have actually been WOMEN - at the one and only women"s event I ever played when I first started playing ... never again). Guys, if you want your GFs to play then bring them along to any APAT event, a mighty fine way to introduced them to the live scene, and the guys at the table will be more than happy to offer any advice to newbies.

+1



other than that, I have very little to add, I don"t qualify to make many suggestions as I don"t play very often but, for me, everything works really well and everyone seems to thoroughly enjoy themselves keep going and "if it ain"t broke, don"t fix it..."

xxx

that"s just my two cents" worth

xxx

[Joker161]

Didn"t realise that we are going to be on the pitch at Wembley. Can"t wait! When do we sign up!

[Gup9y]

I"ve got to say that I love APAT event and the only concerns I have would be the cost of events abroad.

[Peter Thorpe]

Buy ins - Stay at £75?  Increase?  Decrease?  Side events?
Not my place really seeing as i only play the series"s, but if i cant sit on the fence id say stay the same, accessible and still with good prizes

Festival style three and four day events - good? or too long?
One national event that was three days (UK champs) would be nice, but dont make them all 3 days otherwise travel and work commitments could skew things...a one off people could work around

Timing - An event every month, every two months, or four big festivals every year maybe?
Love the four major festivals idea, then have smaller events monthly alongside those

WCOAP - Should it extend further with the addition of two day side events and an even larger main event?

Definatley, make some events one day, but others (thinking six max, HU and omaha specifically) could do being 2 day"ers...this season showed this is the one series that needs to grow.
Main event being a three day event would be pretty sweet yeah, hour clock for the world championship maybe?

Team events - Should we invite multiple teams from same communities? structure?
Not qualified to comment on this AT ALL

Formats - Should we be looking to include anything new?  Should we run one of the nationals in a different format, outside of the WCOAP and ECOAP?
A championship in mixed games (HORSE or even 8 game if we can ever find the dealers for it) would be pretty sweet. But say only one a year.

Registration - Thoughts on satellites, direct buy in via client, generic satellite packages versus specific satellite packages, should satellites packages include a contribution towards travel and hotel?
I"d rather be able to buy in via the client than anything else...not gonna lie i wasnt a fan of the reserve list idea although i can see why it was done that way. Also maybe the idea of series passport packagaes with travel and hotel would be pretty nice and would deffo get interest.

Seat reservation - Should this continue?  If so, why?  If we added a Paypal button to enable players to pay the 10% fee upfront, would this work?  So players not taking up their reservation would lose the fee element of their buy in?
I"m honestly not sure on this one

Locations - Overseas?  New locations?  For example we could take the ECOAP to Western Europe.  Would players come, if destination was cheap and outside of holiday periods?
It"d be pretty cool to make euro"s move about but yeah your idea about cheap and outside of holidays is spot on...

Commercial - To increase our budgets we might ask you to qualify for events at a third party site, or join us for a crazy night of blackjack or slots tournaments.  Is this acceptable, not acceptable, would stop you playing, etc?
Third party site seems fine, if it results in more tourneys and more locations with differing variations id be more than willing to play some other site for the chance...stars + apat anyone?

Awards - Further develop the medals?  More bracelets?  Differentiate between live and online event awards?  Added value?
Medals are fine as they are, they have prestige enough...deffo keep bracelets to the worlds and only the worlds imo but thats just me...id probably make online events give less added value so that the live ones get more...but then an online player would say the opposite, so keep them as they are...as for added value team up with a big tour for the bigger events...that would be utterly immense (EPT for amateur world champion would be so sick)

Merchandise - Should we sell stuff?  Shirts, cards, chip set, card protectors?  How deep should the range be?  High quality or cheap?  Would you buy high resolution pictures of yourself at events, branded with the event name, APAT logo and in an APAT sleeve?
SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!
Seriously though yes to everything on that list, good quality but dont go nuts, and send me some patches!

[SirPercival]

Would love to see a ladies event at the WCOAP/ECOAP.
Been mentioned before that there is a huge gap, and i think grabbing hold of the market could be really good.
The standard of the ladies game is very solid in the UK scene, and it would encourage people to get the GFs playing, less arguements when you book the time off and a safe environment for new faces to learn with no "stigma" or "pressure"

- I also like the idea of a womens event. My missus knows the rules, has played a bit and even won a few homes games and a couple of pub games, but playing live is still a bit scary for her and I think a ladies event might make her more likely to come along to a future event.

Please do not do this .... ever.

Poker is one of the rare sports/activities that women can compete equally on the same footing as men without discrimination, and more importantly without reduced prize monies! (aka snooker etc). After years of women crying out for acceptance in the mainstream and to not be discriminated against why oh why would you want to create an event that really has no reason to be a single sex game. 

Women only Poker event"s tilt the hell out of me, but more so because there is no equal "men"s only" event to run alongside.

There is no reason why women would be at any disadvantage whatsoever playing poker against a man.

The poker environment is like any other "unknown" environment, at first it can appear to be intimidating but actually isn"t. I personally have found that the nicest people I have met have been via the poker circuit (I entered the live circuit as a lone female having no idea what to expect) ... and like other environments, yes there can be the odd rude man although i have to say the most scarey rude people I have encountered across the felt have actually been WOMEN - at the one and only women"s event I ever played when I first started playing ... never again). Guys, if you want your GFs to play then bring them along to any APAT event, a mighty fine way to introduced them to the live scene, and the guys at the table will be more than happy to offer any advice to newbies.

Post of the year IMO.

A womens event is sexual discrimination against Men unless there is a "mens event" (which sounds equally as daft to me as having a womens event).

The "intimidation" card is also invalid IMO. I felt intimidated the first time I played a live poker event, I was young and inexperienced. Does that mean we should have a "under 25s" event? I was even more intimidated by the woman playing in that same event and now I"m man enough to admit it!

Imagine the outcry if APAT had launched 7 years ago and said an event was going to be men only!

Anyway, as I said in my early post on the subject, I could argue woman have an advantage over men playing poker and if there was a 50/50 split of men/women playing each tourney, my money would be on the ladies winning in the long term.

[NellieG]

Would love to see a ladies event at the WCOAP/ECOAP.
Been mentioned before that there is a huge gap, and i think grabbing hold of the market could be really good.
The standard of the ladies game is very solid in the UK scene, and it would encourage people to get the GFs playing, less arguements when you book the time off and a safe environment for new faces to learn with no "stigma" or "pressure"

- I also like the idea of a womens event. My missus knows the rules, has played a bit and even won a few homes games and a couple of pub games, but playing live is still a bit scary for her and I think a ladies event might make her more likely to come along to a future event.

Please do not do this .... ever.

Poker is one of the rare sports/activities that women can compete equally on the same footing as men without discrimination, and more importantly without reduced prize monies! (aka snooker etc). After years of women crying out for acceptance in the mainstream and to not be discriminated against why oh why would you want to create an event that really has no reason to be a single sex game. 

Women only Poker event"s tilt the hell out of me, but more so because there is no equal "men"s only" event to run alongside.

There is no reason why women would be at any disadvantage whatsoever playing poker against a man.

The poker environment is like any other "unknown" environment, at first it can appear to be intimidating but actually isn"t. I personally have found that the nicest people I have met have been via the poker circuit (I entered the live circuit as a lone female having no idea what to expect) ... and like other environments, yes there can be the odd rude man although i have to say the most scarey rude people I have encountered across the felt have actually been WOMEN - at the one and only women"s event I ever played when I first started playing ... never again). Guys, if you want your GFs to play then bring them along to any APAT event, a mighty fine way to introduced them to the live scene, and the guys at the table will be more than happy to offer any advice to newbies.

Post of the year IMO.

A womens event is sexual discrimination against Men unless there is a "mens event" (which sounds equally as daft to me as having a womens event).

The "intimidation" card is also invalid IMO. I felt intimidated the first time I played a live poker event, I was young and inexperienced. Does that mean we should have a "under 25s" event? I was even more intimidated by the woman playing in that same event and now I"m man enough to admit it!

Imagine the outcry if APAT had launched 7 years ago and said an event was going to be men only!

Anyway, as I said in my early post on the subject, I could argue woman have an advantage over men playing poker and if there was a 50/50 split of men/women playing each tourney, my money would be on the ladies winning in the long term.

+ 1

Great post by Holdy (and not because she is my daughter)! It is not a physical game, except gathering your chips, which can be a problem with my arthritic hands that gender does not effect. I have found most women I have come across a poker table can be more aggressive than men, perhaps that is why they have the knack of keeping their men in order

I was nearing 70 when I first entered a poker room and was quaking at my knees so cannot imagine how she had the guts to walk into a poker room for the first time by herself!

[Curlarge]

Would love to see a ladies event at the WCOAP/ECOAP.
Been mentioned before that there is a huge gap, and i think grabbing hold of the market could be really good.
The standard of the ladies game is very solid in the UK scene, and it would encourage people to get the GFs playing, less arguements when you book the time off and a safe environment for new faces to learn with no "stigma" or "pressure"

- I also like the idea of a womens event. My missus knows the rules, has played a bit and even won a few homes games and a couple of pub games, but playing live is still a bit scary for her and I think a ladies event might make her more likely to come along to a future event.

Please do not do this .... ever.

Poker is one of the rare sports/activities that women can compete equally on the same footing as men without discrimination, and more importantly without reduced prize monies! (aka snooker etc). After years of women crying out for acceptance in the mainstream and to not be discriminated against why oh why would you want to create an event that really has no reason to be a single sex game. 

Women only Poker event"s tilt the hell out of me, but more so because there is no equal "men"s only" event to run alongside.

There is no reason why women would be at any disadvantage whatsoever playing poker against a man.

The poker environment is like any other "unknown" environment, at first it can appear to be intimidating but actually isn"t. I personally have found that the nicest people I have met have been via the poker circuit (I entered the live circuit as a lone female having no idea what to expect) ... and like other environments, yes there can be the odd rude man although i have to say the most scarey rude people I have encountered across the felt have actually been WOMEN - at the one and only women"s event I ever played when I first started playing ... never again). Guys, if you want your GFs to play then bring them along to any APAT event, a mighty fine way to introduced them to the live scene, and the guys at the table will be more than happy to offer any advice to newbies.

Post of the year IMO.

A womens event is sexual discrimination against Men unless there is a "mens event" (which sounds equally as daft to me as having a womens event).

The "intimidation" card is also invalid IMO. I felt intimidated the first time I played a live poker event, I was young and inexperienced. Does that mean we should have a "under 25s" event? I was even more intimidated by the woman playing in that same event and now I"m man enough to admit it!

Imagine the outcry if APAT had launched 7 years ago and said an event was going to be men only!

Anyway, as I said in my early post on the subject, I could argue woman have an advantage over men playing poker and if there was a 50/50 split of men/women playing each tourney, my money would be on the ladies winning in the long term.

You were playing back in the 60"s, WOW.....who knew

[Kronsdat]

Buy ins - Stay at £75?  Increase?  Decrease?  Side events?

The present set up seems fine to me and generates enough prize money to be attractive, so I don"t see any particular reason to change it.

Festival style three and four day events - good? or too long?

A couple of 3/4 day festivals (as I think we currently have) seems fine, but I"m not sure you would get a lot of support for an increased number of them.

Timing - An event every month, every two months, or four big festivals every year maybe?

A live event every two months, with the on-line "equivalent" the month before.  That gives us something every month of the season and maintains interest I think.

WCOAP - Should it extend further with the addition of two day side events and an even larger main event?

Seemed to work fine as it is to me.

Team events - Should we invite multiple teams from same communities? structure?

Again, I liked what happened this year.  I think the team event was the most fun thing this season and I"ve heard others say the same.  I don"t see why there should be multiple teams from particular communities, as the team event is already oversubscribed.

Formats - Should we be looking to include anything new?  Should we run one of the nationals in a different format, outside of the WCOAP and ECOAP?

Why?

Registration - Thoughts on satellites, direct buy in via client, generic satellite packages versus specific satellite packages, should satellites packages include a contribution towards travel and hotel?

If the satellites could be done via poker.co.uk that would be fine I think.  Best to avoid too many other sites as people find negotiating some of them a pain (I"m talking about you William Hill!)  I think they should just be entry fee paid only - so that the number of players "paid" in a satellite tourney is maximised.

Seat reservation - Should this continue?  If so, why?  If we added a Paypal button to enable players to pay the 10% fee upfront, would this work?  So players not taking up their reservation would lose the fee element of their buy in?

That sounds like a good idea - it would stop people just registering "on spec" when they know they are probably not going to actually go.

Locations - Overseas?  New locations?  For example we could take the ECOAP to Western Europe.  Would players come, if destination was cheap and outside of holiday periods?

It doesn"t particularly appeal to me, though having the European tournament on the continent occasionally seems an obvious idea.  It would need to be well timed (a bank holiday?) to make it practical for a decent number of the regs to get there.

Commercial - To increase our budgets we might ask you to qualify for events at a third party site, or join us for a crazy night of blackjack or slots tournaments.  Is this acceptable, not acceptable, would stop you playing, etc?

It wouldn"t be of any interest to me - enough of my family and friends already think I"m a degerate gambler as it is!

Awards - Further develop the medals?  More bracelets?  Differentiate between live and online event awards?  Added value?

Fine as it stands to my mind.

Merchandise - Should we sell stuff?  Shirts, cards, chip set, card protectors?  How deep should the range be?  High quality or cheap?  Would you buy high resolution pictures of yourself at events, branded with the event name, APAT logo and in an APAT sleeve?

Decent quality stuff, why not?  Mark Lassman penguins would be a big hit I think.

Keep up the good work guys.

[GiMac]

Would love to see a ladies event at the WCOAP/ECOAP.
Been mentioned before that there is a huge gap, and i think grabbing hold of the market could be really good.
The standard of the ladies game is very solid in the UK scene, and it would encourage people to get the GFs playing, less arguements when you book the time off and a safe environment for new faces to learn with no "stigma" or "pressure"

- I also like the idea of a womens event. My missus knows the rules, has played a bit and even won a few homes games and a couple of pub games, but playing live is still a bit scary for her and I think a ladies event might make her more likely to come along to a future event.

Please do not do this .... ever.

Poker is one of the rare sports/activities that women can compete equally on the same footing as men without discrimination, and more importantly without reduced prize monies! (aka snooker etc). After years of women crying out for acceptance in the mainstream and to not be discriminated against why oh why would you want to create an event that really has no reason to be a single sex game. 

Women only Poker event"s tilt the hell out of me, but more so because there is no equal "men"s only" event to run alongside.

There is no reason why women would be at any disadvantage whatsoever playing poker against a man.

The poker environment is like any other "unknown" environment, at first it can appear to be intimidating but actually isn"t. I personally have found that the nicest people I have met have been via the poker circuit (I entered the live circuit as a lone female having no idea what to expect) ... and like other environments, yes there can be the odd rude man although i have to say the most scarey rude people I have encountered across the felt have actually been WOMEN - at the one and only women"s event I ever played when I first started playing ... never again). Guys, if you want your GFs to play then bring them along to any APAT event, a mighty fine way to introduced them to the live scene, and the guys at the table will be more than happy to offer any advice to newbies.

Sigh, puts kilt back in wardrobe.