APAT Cash Championship

[AAroddersAA]

APAT ran it"s newest format of poker at DTD this weekend with the APAT Cash Championship taking centre stage at the club on Saturday night. The new format attracted a wide range of players including the well known Keith Hawkins and a host of DTD regulars.

Although I liked the format I was unsure if it would have a true cash game feel to it and seemed more like a tournament. I was also wondering if the format would encourage to much gambling at the end as everybody tried to get a top 8 stack to reach the final table. However myself and a number of others still took our seats in the game to try and win APAT gold.

At the tables there was a bit of discussion about if the format kind of felt like a tournament or a cash game. As the game was played it was definitely more of a cash game and the table dynamics were that of a cash game as you picked up on what players were going to do what. The top eight stacks going to the final table made for an interesting dynamic as some players were ready to gamble from the get go whilst others were playing tight taking their time in building the stacks. Some players cashed in and left the game and the tables were merged. Overall the feel of the game was pretty unique but it was a cash game more than anything else. One tweak I would like to see that I think Des is going to have a look at is rather than 1 full reload have 4 25% reloads. So if you get stacked you could use them all to buy back up to £100 but if you lost just £25 or £50 in a hand you could top up to allow you to continue to play 100BB deep for as long as possible. This would give it more of a cash game feel I think.

As the game progressed towards the final people did loosen up and get more aggressive which is always good for a game and the players had to adapt to this.

When the final table was made what you had was some really deep stacks and the game effectively did become a deep stacked cash game. So what we seem to have here is almost a shootout that gives you entry to a deep stacked final for an affordable buyin. I ended the game £8 down (if you were at DTD you know what happened if you weren"t I won"t bore you with it *lol*).

I will edit this post after the weekend (I have to go to DTD to play the main event now) to talk about the final table but my feelings were that this APAT Cash Championship is something APAT might want to explore more. I would (and I have no doubt, more importantly, Des and Leigh would) love to here the thoughts of the players who played (Mr Redfern need not post *lol* - only joking Steve, well played) and the players who may play future events of this type. I would certainly play if this format was repeated at another event. What tweaks and changes would encourage the community to want to play this excellent event.

I think this is worthy of a Thread.

[SirPercival]

I think the fact that there was, and is, discussion about whether it is a cash game or a tournamnet means that it"s met it"s objective IMO.

I didn"t play, but did watch some of the final table and would definatly consider playing any future similar event.

Well done Des and the APAT team for pushing the boundaries again and taking this game we all love to yet another level.

[Yorkshire Pudding]

One way of encouraging action would be to either put a compulsory straddle in play at certain points in the game, or have it as a "win the button" format where if you win a hand you get the button the very next hand regardless of your seat at the table.

[s4ooter]

I played it and throughly enjoyed it but would only change one thing.

Players that haven"t taken there £100 reload should be able to do so when the play ends but BEFORE the FT starts.
An example from the event.  Chinese Frankie has used his reload and is in for £200 total, he finished on £280ish.  Im in for £100 and finish on £237....im not sure how he has performed better than myself in this situation as my profit is higher.

If your all allowed to use your 2nd £100 as an "add-on" after the 1st 3 hrs of play (but before the chipcounts are done) then it allows everyone to be in the same boat, and the true top 8 can be determined.

Maybe im bitter as Ian Gacoignes crazy last hand helped him pip me by £11 to the FT, idk, but just think it has to be level.

Great event tho

[AAroddersAA]

I think Dann makes a very good point here. The players who have not rebought should have the option to do so as this may create a deeper final table. I assume the reason for taking the biggest stack through is to create a deeper final table, allowing people to use their reload at the end of the first period would also achieve this objective.

[AMRN]

There was a lot of discussion about the format for the cash championship, and whether or not it would work as an event. I had views on this before the event, and had no intention of playing it - I"ve never been a cash player, and when I do play cash I tend to see the monetary value of the chips, and this restricts my ability to play "proper poker".

I only played this event on Saturday as I had profit from the previous night, and the main event was going horribly wrong for me. I treated the buy in as a tournament buy in, and as such was able to divorce myself from the cash value of the chips, and was able to play effectively.

The tournament approach in the first three hour session made for some great spots that just never really materialise in a cash game, where people were gambling to try and create big stacks.... and that others knew this was happening and were calling pretty light, which made for some great squeezing opportunities.

The restriction of the reload (could only reload when felted) made it less like a cash game as people with under £40 were searching for spots to gamble with any two cards knowing that if they lost they could then get back to a £100 stack.... I got lucky in that every time 40x stacks shoved, I had reasonable hands to call/isolate with, and was able to hoover up those short stacks.   If this event runs again (which it must!), I suspect there will be calls to have the reload split into 25% chunks that can be used as top ups rather than as a single reload when felted..... this will make the game more akin to a cash game, which is probably the right thing to do, BUT the single reload approach certainly opened up some really interesting scenarios.

Having got a FT stack, the chance to play super deep stacked cash for an affordable buy in was awesome.   Some on the final table were playing it as a rake free cash game, whilst the others were playing for the win - it was no surprise that these were the biggest stacks at the end.  The tournament approach, and the added value ISPT seat, made for some great pressure points during that final table.  People had to balance the winner takes all mentality of the title and added value for first place, with the risk of losing several hundred pounds of real hard cash.

On our starting table, we were trying to decide if we were playing cash or tournament.... we agreed that we were playing "cash-ish" (not to confused with certain substances that seemed to grab Laxie"s attention).

Obviously pleased that I managed to get into this (with less than 5 minutes to spare), and just hope that it gets repeated at future events. APAT continues to break ground, and I really do see mileage in this concept.

[AMRN]

I played it and throughly enjoyed it but would only change one thing.

Players that haven"t taken there £100 reload should be able to do so when the play ends but BEFORE the FT starts.
An example from the event.  Chinese Frankie has used his reload and is in for £200 total, he finished on £280ish.  Im in for £100 and finish on £237....im not sure how he has performed better than myself in this situation as my profit is higher.

If your all allowed to use your 2nd £100 as an "add-on" after the 1st 3 hrs of play (but before the chipcounts are done) then it allows everyone to be in the same boat, and the true top 8 can be determined.

Maybe im bitter as Ian Gacoignes crazy last hand helped him pip me by £11 to the FT, idk, but just think it has to be level.

Great event tho

The chip counts were done, and the final eight announced.... those in the final eight that had a reload card intact could then use it as an add-on.

I agree that the chip count should be done AFTER the add-on is purchased though.... someone who has £300 from a £100 buy in has surely done better than someone who has £301 from a £200 buy in.

[s4ooter]

I think Dann makes a very good point here. The players who have not rebought should have the option to do so as this may create a deeper final table. I assume the reason for taking the biggest stack through is to create a deeper final table, allowing people to use their reload at the end of the first period would also achieve this objective.

True but i still had a reload and Frankie didnt, so if i was allowed to take mine at the end of the 3hrs i would have more money infront of me than him, and therefore more money would be on the FT.

Still, its only a tweek from an enjoyable event.  The only avoidable part was that it was going to be filled with DTD Cash regs playing rake free, which it was, so it was nice to see that the medals went to players that were interested in the prestigue and not the £££

[AAroddersAA]

I think Dann makes a very good point here. The players who have not rebought should have the option to do so as this may create a deeper final table. I assume the reason for taking the biggest stack through is to create a deeper final table, allowing people to use their reload at the end of the first period would also achieve this objective.

True but i still had a reload and Frankie didnt, so if i was allowed to take mine at the end of the 3hrs i would have more money infront of me than him, and therefore more money would be on the FT.

Still, its only a tweek from an enjoyable event.  The only avoidable part was that it was going to be filled with DTD Cash regs playing rake free, which it was, so it was nice to see that the medals went to players that were interested in the prestigue and not the £££

Yes, that"s what I said :-)

As for the DTD regs, they made for a good game but I would like to see the next one at a smaller event like maybe Coventry? If it is possible reduce the buyin down (the entry could remain £10) but make it 25p/50p for three hours and then 50p/£1 for the final. This would encourage more people to play it and see how great of a format it is. If it was the side event to one of the APAT events that would be ideal really as you don;t want to create a side event that is too expensive. Getting tables full of APAT regs here would be ideal and would add a lot to the event.

I think this would get a lot of people interested in this format and once they play it I think they will want to see more of them. This format and buyin level could become the norm at WCOAP and ECOAP.