Sheffield Day 1a Level 9 of 10

[adilong1]

Hi people this is my first time asking for advice on here, any help would be good.

Level 9 15 mins left on clock blinds 500/1000.

Just been moved to a new table various sizes in stacks a couple of aggressive Chinese guys on the table. I"m between a guy who has similar stack to mine and to my left a guy with about 500k

I"m on the button with with about 40k avg about 55-60.
Chinese villain raise to 3k utg 3 with about 80k behind.
Guy to my right flat calls he too has about 40k

I re raise to 7700 both flat call
Flop  

Chinese villain straight shoves and guy to my right calls.

What"s my move?? Should I snap call or very reluctantly fold?

[AMRN]

First, what was the reasoning behind your 3bet size?  If it was to induce action to allow you to get your stack in to showdown, with the possibility that it might be multiway, then here"s your opportunity - if this is what you were hoping for, then it"s an easy call.

Personally, I would 3bet much more preflop - in fact, with 7.5k plus antes in the middle after the raise and call, I may well shove 40k..... if they fold, we pick up a reasonable stack increase..... but more importantly our shove can look like a weaker hand making a big squeeze, and we will get called often enough to make it a profitable move against two players.

I hate the spot you"re in now - if the UTG raiser had shoved, and the guy in the middle folded, you have a much easier decision.  Against two players, you"re hardly ever ahead now, and it"s a sigh fold.  For that reason, I"m doing everything I can to get this hand headsup before the flop - the 3bet needs to be much bigger than your min-raise, perhaps somewhere around the 12k-15k mark, if not a shove.

As played, fold now.

[kevod85]

First, what was the reasoning behind your 3bet size?  If it was to induce action to allow you to get your stack in to showdown, with the possibility that it might be multiway, then here"s your opportunity - if this is what you were hoping for, then it"s an easy call.

Personally, I would 3bet much more preflop - in fact, with 7.5k plus antes in the middle after the raise and call, I may well shove 40k..... if they fold, we pick up a reasonable stack increase..... but more importantly our shove can look like a weaker hand making a big squeeze, and we will get called often enough to make it a profitable move against two players.

I hate the spot you"re in now - if the UTG raiser had shoved, and the guy in the middle folded, you have a much easier decision.  Against two players, you"re hardly ever ahead now, and it"s a sigh fold.  For that reason, I"m doing everything I can to get this hand headsup before the flop - the 3bet needs to be much bigger than your min-raise, perhaps somewhere around the 12k-15k mark, if not a shove.

This, my stack would have been in pre.

[deanp27]

whoaa i think piling 40bb pre is really bad, whatever we have. We don"t get aces that often so let"s not waste them. Agree that the chosen sizing can be tweaked though - in fact its way too small, i bet you don"t 3bet any other hand to this sizing. Probably going to around 11k as default, maybe more if they are terrible peely types, just enough to think you might fold if they cram but to create around a ~PSB for the flop if either/both call.

As played let"s just call but not ecstatic about it, they don"t have alot of 2 pair combos and sets are hard to make. Fade the KQ, QJ type hands.

[Erimus]

Urgh what a a horrid spot, if it was just aggro Chinese guy snap call if he has a set so be it but with the other bloke in as well think a little bit more.

If Chinese guy has a set surely wouldn"t lead out here as he would check hoping you as pre flop raiser would c bet so I am not worried about him, the board is pretty dry  no straight or flush Draws and 33, 88 and QQ are definitely in people"s call ranges all have 40 bigs or more, poss a slow played KK (unlikely) by either guy wouldn"t be out of the question ie no Ace on board get it all in, all things  considered in the real world I probably call with a massive sigh and I have a bad beat to moan about, (you still have outs if they have a set or weird 2 pair).

if you fold you still have  between 25/30 bigs which can still put pressure on people towards the end of the day, people tend to tighten up wanting to make day 2 so you can try and get a few chip back that way.

Although I said call, a fold wouldn"t be to bad as long as you don"t go on tilt and spew off the rest of your chips thinking about the one that got away, hope it went ok for you either way.

[dwh103]

whoaa i think piling 40bb pre is really bad, whatever we have. We don"t get aces that often so let"s not waste them. Agree that the chosen sizing can be tweaked though - in fact its way too small, i bet you don"t 3bet any other hand to this sizing. Probably going to around 11k as default, maybe more if they are terrible peely types, just enough to think you might fold if they cram but to create around a ~PSB for the flop if either/both call.

As played let"s just call but not ecstatic about it, they don"t have alot of 2 pair combos and sets are hard to make. Fade the KQ, QJ type hands.

+1

[adilong1]

Yep, I made a mess of my bet sizing and realised as soon as I made it. But thanks for the feedback.
As it happens it was the only time I had AA and hadn"t had KK or QQ all day either.
Extra points if you can guess the hands of both players??

[kevod85]

from my experience of playing with aggro chinese players, i wouldnt put it past one of them holding q8!

[adilong1]

from my experience of playing with aggro chinese players, i wouldnt put it past one of them holding q8!

Bingo!! Give that man a hand yes he sure did have Q8  

[kevod85]

I think if you had of made the 3 bet bigger you would of still got the two calls, these kind of players dont like to fold to a raise once they have chips in the middle but when its there torny life or majority of there stack on the line is does make them think twice. That was my reasoning behind wanting to get it in pre. Would rather take the 7.5k + antes than get involved post flop with two of these type of players!

[AAroddersAA]

I think if you had of made the 3 bet bigger you would of still got the two calls, these kind of players dont like to fold to a raise once they have chips in the middle but when its there torny life or majority of there stack on the line is does make them think twice. That was my reasoning behind wanting to get it in pre. Would rather take the 7.5k + antes than get involved post flop with two of these type of players!

This is exactly why we should 3 bet bigger, but not shove. We don"t want them to fold. I am probably making this about 15K if I think they are calling it off light and then planning to shove the flop.

As played I think it has to be a fold. The original shove can be top pair quite a lot of the time and is unlikely to be anything we lose too as most players would not shove many hands that beat AA. When our second opponent calls though I would give him a range of:-

AQ
Two pair
Middle or bottom set

Easy fold when typing it on a strategy board, quite tough in game though. Think I could make it in this spot tbh.

[WYoung83]

i would 3 bet to 9k, and call here.

[Zozzy]

My preferred bet size here is 14/15k against competent thinking players. This should eliminate marginal hands like KQ and Q8 lol. 
But against these types of players you may get the call you want (I am presuming these stereotype aggro players to be wide opening ranges and stations preflop once they have already committed chips to the pot).

As played with the small reraise, I fold to the two all-ins. The player who calls the push is in front of our one pair for sure.

[adilong1]

Well,

Aggro Chinese guys and second player also shoves,

I tank for a while and decide that if I"m travelling all the way back for day 2 I"d rather have 100k than 32k or less,

Chinese    
Other guy  
Me    

Turn  
River  

[Zozzy]

The player who calls the push is in front of our one pair for sure.

Well I am wrong to say the caller is in front, he has top pair King kicker. He must have a very low opinion of the Chinese aggro Guy to call him all-in.
And what is the caller putting you on? You were still to act.