Season Seven Seat Reservation

[Robbiebox]

Tend to agree with last few posters and really don"t like the idea, as I believe paying another fiver on top of reg fee will put off most new and even a lot of existing players. It has the potential to destroy the big fields that APAT has always previously been able to achieve upto now.

I prefer the idea of buying in on the poker client for a small fee ( say the £7.50 reg fee ) upto the night before and then pay the remainder at the casino on the day.

[Curlarge]

I have to say that I don"t like the feel of this either.

As has been said, it"s usually "the earlier you book, the cheaper it is", (i.e. hotels, holidays, season tickets etc...), and to the outsider it might look like a bit of a rip-off (obv. we regulars know it isn"t) as they will rightly point out that all poker companies, and all other companies in fact, have running costs for admin., and they don"t charge a fee.

Is there any reason why we cant send the "reservation" money, say £20 to make it worthwhile, to the casino by bank transfer, rather than send it to APAT? Most of us will have on-line banking I guess. We just pay the balance on the day. If you are a "no show" then the casino gets the extra. This might incentivise them to set the system up.The admin costs then lie with them rather than APAT.

That way they would bear the costs of "moving the money" in whatever way they needed too, and we would just pay the same amount on bank charges, if any, as we would if we were paying APAT.

Des" points were:-

The ideal scenario for APAT:-

1)  Keep the events open online until the last possible moment, ideally the evening before the event. 
2)  Offer the events with the shortest possible journey between becoming aware of them (on the home page) and committing to play - ie, don"t ask new players to wade through a 20 page thread and then have to download software etc, find a tournament tab, deposit funds, etc etc etc!
3)  Remove as much of the admin as we can to enable us to get on with some more important stuff for the tour.
4)  Avoid getting hit with charges from payment providers or currency transactions
5)  Generate revenue for APAT.

Points 1-4 would seem to be covered although point 5 would not be.

1) The casino knows how many runners they have registered at any time.
2) The "Pay Now" button would simply need to show how to make the reservation payment. i.e. account number, sort code etc....
3 and 4) It would appear to do this.
5) to be addressed.

or is this too easy?

[Paulie_D]

As has been said, it"s usually "the earlier you book, the cheaper it is", (i.e. hotels, holidays, season tickets etc...)

Rich.

As I pointed out this isn"t a proper comparison.

All of those other places require you to pay the full amount up front...APAT isn"t suggesting that and, apparently, there are considerable costs (one way or another) in doing it that way.

[SirPercival]

As has been said, it"s usually "the earlier you book, the cheaper it is", (i.e. hotels, holidays, season tickets etc...)

Rich.

As I pointed out this isn"t a proper comparison.

All of those other places require you to pay the full amount up front...APAT isn"t suggesting that and, apparently, there are considerable costs (one way or another) in doing it that way.

Paulie you have said this a couple of times now but I"m sorry it"s just not true. I have booked many hotels and holidays where I don"t pay up front and have the option of canceling (at a price) if things change.

[Curlarge]

As has been said, it"s usually "the earlier you book, the cheaper it is", (i.e. hotels, holidays, season tickets etc...)

Rich.

As I pointed out this isn"t a proper comparison.

All of those other places require you to pay the full amount up front...APAT isn"t suggesting that and, apparently, there are considerable costs (one way or another) in doing it that way.

Then why don"t we just pay the £82.50 straight away, direct to the casino. If you can"t make it, last minute, simply sell your seat on the seat exchange and notify the casino accordingly, as was the case before.

All of the monies end up at the casino anyhow.

I also note that almost all of the venues we use i.e. Genting, DTD, G, Grosvenor etc all have online poker sites. Is there any reason why they can"t set up a holding tank and we just register/un-register there?

Each event can then be promoted separately on Apat with the "Buy Now" button taking you straight to the site. As most people play live and online, it if fair to assume that almost all will be familiar with most online sites.

[Paulie_D]

Then why don"t we just pay the £82.50 straight away, direct to the casino. If you can"t make it, last minute, simply sell your seat on the seat exchange and notify the casino accordingly, as was the case before.

All of the monies end up at the casino anyhow.

This is the ideal solution, of course.

I also note that almost all of the venues we use i.e. Genting, DTD, G, Grosvenor etc all have online poker sites. Is there any reason why they can"t set up a holding tank and we just register/un-register there?

Each event can then be promoted separately on Apat with the "Buy Now" button taking you straight to the site. As most people play live and online, it if fair to assume that almost all will be familiar with most online sites.

Only downside is the faff of having multiple poker clients installed and funding them but as you say, this might not be a hassle for many.

Just for my education, how do Genting, G etc. manage their tour buy-ins? Do they just swallow the transaction fees or do they do something different?

[Curlarge]

Then why don"t we just pay the £82.50 straight away, direct to the casino. If you can"t make it, last minute, simply sell your seat on the seat exchange and notify the casino accordingly, as was the case before.

All of the monies end up at the casino anyhow.

This is the ideal solution, of course.

I also note that almost all of the venues we use i.e. Genting, DTD, G, Grosvenor etc all have online poker sites. Is there any reason why they can"t set up a holding tank and we just register/un-register there?

Each event can then be promoted separately on Apat with the "Buy Now" button taking you straight to the site. As most people play live and online, it if fair to assume that almost all will be familiar with most online sites.

Only downside is the faff of having multiple poker clients installed and funding them but as you say, this might not be a hassle for many.

Just for my education, how do Genting, G etc. manage their tour buy-ins? Do they just swallow the transaction fees or do they do something different?

Whenever I have bought in, it"s been the buy in plus reg fee and that"s it.

[Hammerite]

Thought I would throw this idea into the mix. You have a full membership say £25 per year, an associate membership say £10 per year. Seats would go on sale on say a Monday to full members, Wednesday to associate members, and then on the Friday, and until seats sell out they go on general sale with no booking fee. Seats are paid for in full at the time of booking with people who find they cannot attend, able to sell them on the seat exchange or lose their money.

This way the people who want to make a commitment to Apat and who tend to play the most tournaments get first dibs, followed by the people who only play say 2 or 3 times a year followed by anyone who wishes to play that particular tournament because it is local to them or it is their national tournament etc etc.

This way newcomers will not be put off by paying an extra £5 and once they realise what Apat is about may be encouraged to take up one of the memberships, thus giving Apat a regular income stream.

[Paulie_D]

As has been said, it"s usually "the earlier you book, the cheaper it is", (i.e. hotels, holidays, season tickets etc...)

Rich.

As I pointed out this isn"t a proper comparison.

All of those other places require you to pay the full amount up front...APAT isn"t suggesting that and, apparently, there are considerable costs (one way or another) in doing it that way.

Paulie you have said this a couple of times now but I"m sorry it"s just not true. I have booked many hotels and holidays where I don"t pay up front and have the option of canceling (at a price) if things change.

I don"t know of any hotel, airline etc. that will let me pay a tiny fee and GUARANTEE me a room, seat etc. with an option NOT to pay if I don"t turn up.

Many hotels will offer a reduced charge for a non-refundable booking but this isn"t an option here. There is a known FIXED cost (£82.50) and APAT can"t reduce that for early buy-in.

Apples & Oranges.

APAT are offering a unique (AFAIK) "service" here, a guaranteed seat reservation without full up-front payment.

Do I like having to pay the extra £5 a time...absolutely not and I recognise and understand the objections (some of which I agree with) but it looks something has to change.

I prefer the membership idea. If you make the perks at say a "Premium" Level a number of guaranteed seats (or even all of them) and, say, a small discount at the APAT shop etc. etc. I think a lot of regs would jump on board and people new to APAT could opt for lower levels.

[Paulie_D]

Just for my education, how do Genting, G etc. manage their tour buy-ins? Do they just swallow the transaction fees or do they do something different?

Whenever I have bought in, it"s been the buy in plus reg fee and that"s it.

Yeah, but do they do it through a poker client or online reg via a 3rd party etc.?

I assume the former?

[AMRN]

The membership idea probably needs a little more exploration - it"s far better than the £5 fee idea (in my humble opinion)...... however, creating tiered membership would only serve to confirm the clique nature of APAT that many people claim.  And I also see it as a potential "put off" for anyone finding APAT for the first time....

[AJDUK]

Paulie. Can I respectfully say that we really should hear a little less from you in responding to people"s points. I"m not convinced you have the inside track on these issues*, and from my own perspective it"s Des I"d like to hear the answers from since it is he that asked the questions. Many of us can work out for ourselves where the issues probably lie, but we need to hear it from the big dog himself.
Keep the ideas flowing people, there"s a small chance one of us will hit upon something Des hasn"t thought of!

*apologies if you do

[Curlarge]

Just for my education, how do Genting, G etc. manage their tour buy-ins? Do they just swallow the transaction fees or do they do something different?

Whenever I have bought in, it"s been the buy in plus reg fee and that"s it.

Yeah, but do they do it through a poker client or online reg via a 3rd party etc.?

I assume the former?

you are correct in that assumption or YES

[Curlarge]

As has been said, it"s usually "the earlier you book, the cheaper it is", (i.e. hotels, holidays, season tickets etc...)

Rich.

As I pointed out this isn"t a proper comparison.

All of those other places require you to pay the full amount up front...APAT isn"t suggesting that and, apparently, there are considerable costs (one way or another) in doing it that way.

Paulie you have said this a couple of times now but I"m sorry it"s just not true. I have booked many hotels and holidays where I don"t pay up front and have the option of canceling (at a price) if things change.

I don"t know of any hotel, airline etc. that will let me pay a tiny fee and GUARANTEE me a room, seat etc. with an option NOT to pay if I don"t turn up.

Many hotels will offer a reduced charge for a non-refundable booking but this isn"t an option here. There is a known FIXED cost (£82.50) and APAT can"t reduce that for early buy-in.

Apples & Oranges.

APAT are offering a unique (AFAIK) "service" here, a guaranteed seat reservation without full up-front payment.

Do I like having to pay the extra £5 a time...absolutely not and I recognise and understand the objections (some of which I agree with) but it looks something has to change.

I prefer the membership idea. If you make the perks at say a "Premium" Level a number of guaranteed seats (or even all of them) and, say, a small discount at the APAT shop etc. etc. I think a lot of regs would jump on board and people new to APAT could opt for lower levels.

Well, and only as an example, Harrahs charge for one night when you make your initial reservation, and then you pay the balance when you get there. This is fully re-fundable if you cancel 24 hours in advance.

[Des]

Paulie. Can I respectfully say that we really should hear a little less from you in responding to people"s points. I"m not convinced you have the inside track on these issues*, and from my own perspective it"s Des I"d like to hear the answers from since it is he that asked the questions. Many of us can work out for ourselves where the issues probably lie, but we need to hear it from the big dog himself.
Keep the ideas flowing people, there"s a small chance one of us will hit upon something Des hasn"t thought of!

*apologies if you do

Can I go under the title BDawg now?  Seems fashionable....

Paulie is actually doing a pretty good job of keeping the discussion going, and a lot of his responses are along the lines of what I would say - which isn"t always the case with Paulie!  

As I"ve said before, the key consideration is to keep the events on sale for as long as possible, because that"s in everyone"s interest.  However, as soon as you add any online transactional element that includes making a payment to the casino, that adds two plus weeks of red tape and the events have to come offline.  So for example "I"m happy to pay £5 but can it go towards my reg fee at the casino, and I"m happy to forfeit it if I can"t make the event?"  A perfectly reasonable suggestion, but it means we"d have to get the money to the casino, cue the two week process. 

It"s clear there"s quite a lot of mixed feelings towards the £5 reservation fee, which ultimately means APAT would not put the idea into practice. 

We can look at introducing membership fees or some of the other ideas suggested if that approach is more palatable to players, and utilise that money to cover off the seat reservation merchandising fees.   But ultimately we need to simply and cost efficiently allow players to get into the events.  That"s the big picture here.