Season Seven Seat Reservation

[Moocher]

I think that"s a great idea!

OMG OMG OMG

Im gonna need to lie down somewhere dark

Ive peaked..................  

[dwh103]

I try to sell APAT to the people I know locally. APAT's competitive advantage is less than what it was in the past, so just selling it on its own is difficult - a £75 comp, couple of hours travel, getting time off from the missus/kids etc.

I"m sure Dwayne (2nd in the Masters) won"t mind me speaking for him when he said "I see what you mean about the APAT camaraderie" - and that wasn"t even a "proper" event. But it was only Wembley getting Dwayne to APAT. Just me telling people that it"s great simply isn"t enough.

Poker players always want something for nothing, they"ll get annoyed/confused at the simplest things. I had enough trouble getting supposedly smart people just to post on the bleeding seat reservation threads! I can say with absolute surety that plenty of players (from a completely ignorant viewpoint) at my local casino would view an extra layer to the process with suspicion - Ok, they don"t have to reserve - but why go to any hassle of organising the rest of their lives to make plans for a non-guaranteed seat? People just won"t bother at all. It"s far too easy to not go, or go elsewhere.

The hardcore know how much fun APAT can be, and they"ll pay a fiver no question to support the tour. I probably would too, even if I think it"s a very inelegant solution to the problem (which tbf is the main crux of why I don"t think it"s a good idea - you"ll still need to admin the £5 fee and the seat list, case by case I assume?).

I would think this discussion would be better served on the LPPL forum - more of the kind of players APAT want to attract there. Has it been posted there? (I can"t see it, but assume I can"t see everything).

Edit: And Moocher"s idea is excellent if it can be worked from an admin POV (get Phil_TC to dust off his coding gloves )

[Des]

Ive spent 20 mins reading all this thread, and it seems to be going round in circles tbh.

I class myself as a recreational player, and attend 2/3 APAT events where possible.

Happy to send £5 direct to APAT bank account ( no fees)

I then register interest in Coventry,

I turn up at Coventry.

I still have my £5 credit at APAT

I register interest in Event 2

I dont turn up and fail to unreg

I lose my £5 credit.

I pay £5 direct to APAT and I can reg for another event.

At the end of the season, APAT keep my fiver and I do it again next season.

Any good? Or have I missed the point as usual ?

It"s a pretty decent effort Graham, but how does it work on the "Pay Now" button?  That"s what we"re looking for, a simple button / banner that sits on the home page right up until the event. 

So with your first event you would use the button, and attend as planned.   However, your second event now starts to involve admin and lists.  Have you paid or not?  Do we need to check lists from several events?  Do we have a second button on the home page if you have?  It just doesn"t have the simplicity that I think we need. 

I have to say I"m getting frustrated with the thread now - the win win answer doesn"t exist so I"m at the point of saying stuff it, let"s stick with closing the events two weeks early and have buy in via the APAT or Partner client. Then I can switch my energies to looking for a couple of admin volunteers.

[Paulie_D]

How about a "Register Now" button instead which leads you to the relevant event(s) IF you are already listed in the "Permit Registration" database table.

If you aren"t it takes you to the form to allow you to pay the £5 to become a member with Registration privileges.

Lists of users allowed to register and those who have registered for events should (he said hopefully) be just a matter of exporting a file from the database.

I think this is entirely possible using WordPress but you"d have to talk to Phil.

[Moocher]

Des / Paulie

Some fine tuning required. I did think of it as a REGISTER NOW,
A PAY NOW bypasses it completely and possibly adds admin to separate the 3 costs involved?

For the record, as I only play a few I would prob pay the £5 regardless, but can see the added costs for die hard players who play every event. It doesnt reward their loyalty.

I thought it may be workable as an option

[AceOnTheRiver]

Perceived value is a funny thing...

When I read abut the £5 extra idea I thought, "I don"t like it" and if I"m honest I still don"t primarily for the reasons stated around attracting new members etc.

However I do like the membership idea with a fee attached with one of the benefits being the members-only pre-sale idea. Don R has put this idea forward already and I don"t see why it cannot work (if it can"t can someone tell me why).

I think it should be a straight forward members / non-members approach, getting into associate members, gold, silver, bronze etc. would be complex (don"t walk before you can run).

Most football & rugby clubs do this where there would be one week before the public sale date to but your seat... membership should also carry other benefits e.g. discounts from APAT merchandise (can APAT facilitate this?) and a small limited edition gift.

[Delboy]

I can switch my energies to looking for a couple of admin volunteers.

What will his involve Des? I"m happy to help if I can.

[Des]

I can switch my energies to looking for a couple of admin volunteers.

What will his involve Des? I"m happy to help if I can.

That"s very kind Del, let me contact you on pm.

How great that three people have actually pm"d me with an offer to help. Much appreciated I can tell you.

[Des]

Perceived value is a funny thing...

When I read abut the £5 extra idea I thought, "I don"t like it" and if I"m honest I still don"t primarily for the reasons stated around attracting new members etc.

However I do like the membership idea with a fee attached with one of the benefits being the members-only pre-sale idea. Don R has put this idea forward already and I don"t see why it cannot work (if it can"t can someone tell me why).

I think it should be a straight forward members / non-members approach, getting into associate members, gold, silver, bronze etc. would be complex (don"t walk before you can run).

Most football & rugby clubs do this where there would be one week before the public sale date to but your seat... membership should also carry other benefits e.g. discounts from APAT merchandise (can APAT facilitate this?) and a small limited edition gift.

I"ll relook at all of the options JP but there isn"t an ideal answer that ticks all of the boxes, even in my own initial suggestion. We have until the S7 announcement to come up with the answer, I would imagine a few days.

[MAIR]

£5 to reserve a seat seems fair to me.

Im a single mum with a young family and it sometimes prevents me from being 100% sure that I can attend and it is usually last minute before I know for sure, to me being able to reserve my seat and it only costing me a fiver and guaranteeing me a place, lets me at least book my hotel in advance and get it cheap on a flexible rate, then travel costs can be arranged when I know 100% I can go.  If I can"t go, losing a fiver is worth it IMO, these guys work their backsides off behind the scenes and it all helps to cover admin costs etc.

its a packet of cigs to me, if i can buy a packet of cigs a day, i can use a fiver to reserve my seat once every couple of months towards an event i really wanna go to, if i go i get it back (win win) if i cant go, then im happy to put it in the admin pot for reserving the seat

I probably dont make sense but really im wondering what all the fuss is about, when I go to events I see peeps knocking back the beers and smoking their wee hearts out, reserving a seat for £5 well cmon its not the end of the world and £5 in this day and age isnt worth all that much in todays living costs but its worth a lot to APAT to keep things running as smoothly as possible for the players and themselves and it guarantees a seat! People go on and on about what other casinos/sites do and how APAT are asking too much. APAT are always thinking of the players, never about themselves and anything they suggest is in the best interest of APAT and the players and to be coming forward and asking for opinions shows how much we mean to them as a community

[AJDUK]

Right now we have a system that only indicates how many people are interested, not how many will actually turn up.
Implementing a £5 fee will give a system that neither tells you how many people are interested*, nor how many people will actually turn up**.
I think the former is therefore much better than the latter (putting aside administration costs).

For example, any notion that a £5 fee would have avoided 30 people not turning up at Wembley from the 80 or so that registered their interest is laughable. 80 wouldn"t have paid the fiver in the first place. What would have happened IMO is that perhaps 30 would have paid the fiver and 25 of those turned up. Further to that only having 30 people registered may have actually put off those that would otherwise go, because they fear a small field and no value.

*because some will be interested but will either not pay the £5 or try to avoid it by registering after the fee is reduced to £0.
** because £5 is expendable

[Paulie_D]

registering after the fee is reduced to £0.

I don"t think this was ever a suggestion...it"s a fiver or you turn up and hope.

At least that"s the way I read it.

[AJDUK]

registering after the fee is reduced to £0.

I don"t think this was ever a suggestion...it"s a fiver or you turn up and hope.

At least that"s the way I read it.

Yes I read it that way too, but some did suggest removing the fee for a short period immediately prior to the event so I just covered it off by putting it that way.

[4KSuited]

It"s a tricky one this. Having just experienced the disappointment of seeing 15 unsold seats at Wembley, I agree that there needs to be a solution that balances APAT's need to cover its costs in delivering excellent value/formatted competitons, with the player"s need for good value & convenience.

It should be noted that having tournaments fully sold is a benefit to the players involved.

However, I think there need to be more benefits than this! Someone"s already posted the idea about an annual membership bestowing benefits. I think that this is the way to go - but with no tier system, just a flat-rate membership fee that would give the following example benefits:

1. Tournament pre-reg preference up to say 10 days in advance of the comp
2. A piece of APAT merchandise - a card-guard; t-shirt; cap; calendar & zillions of other low-cost volume items
3. Staking privelege (?)
4. Monthly email updates on APAT special offers

I can"t speak for everyone, of course, but even those on tight budgets would probably value this at something around £20 p/a - that"s about 3 packets of fags...

It also has the benefit of simplicity, and perhaps the "welcome pack" could include the facility to authorise payment by DD, which I believe would keep transaction fees relatively low - and even offer people the choice to pay by cheque in the post should they so wish (and this is even cheaper for APAT)

Maybe I"m being niaive...

[s4ooter]

TBH the 1st thing i think when "Membership" is mentioned is "clique".  The appeal of APAT is that the very fact that its open to all grassroots players, and not too sure what effect a membership would have??  Thats not saying it wont work?

Why cant me just punish people that dont let APAT know they cant attend with enough notice.  Its pretty embarrassing that grown adults cant have the common curtosey to do that tbf.

Still....