Rag Aces

[kevod85]

Playing rag aces....

This is by far the biggest leak in my game, i no it is but yet i still keep doing it!

APAT cov, Level 5 bust with A9o in posistion
BCPC DS, Level 4 bust with A2hh from BB
Online Torn sunday just gone, 6/16/1320 and i blow 85% of my stack with A5hh from BB again!

Is the simple answer just don"t play them? Is it i"m playing them from the wrong position? Wrong part of the tournament?

Just want to know what peoples thoughts are on these type of hands. how you play them etc.

Thanks

[AAroddersAA]

The question is pretty wide and hard to answer to be honest but I will give it a shot.

The first thing you really have to decide is what exactly is a rag ace. For example in a number of circumstances I would not consider A5hh or A2hh rag aces as they are suited and in the right game these can be really useful this is usually earlier in the tournament when you are very deep and can speculate a bit to try and make the nuts and get a big pay of against the investment needed to see the flop. These kinds of hands are also great for 3-bet/4-bet shoving light later in the tournament in a good spot as you hold a useful blocker and even if you get called by a monster you have as good equity as you are going to get usually.

A9o I not such a good hand in the above situations as other than having an ace blocker it doesn"t really do anything.

A lot depends on how you play these hands. Sometimes I will just fold them but sometimes I will raise certainly from late position (I generally don"t like it when people raise in EP with these hands) and play the flop. If I hit a dry flop which is ace high I will often check it for both pot control and because there is little value to betting (better hands call worse hands fold etc). I will certainly never be limping in with these hands as this is just asking for trouble. If you limp, then call a raise and hit an ace high flop what do you do then? Even if you hit two pair (which is not a good reason to play these hands) how much heat can your hand really take? If I do raise from LP and get repopped I am usually folding unless I have a good reason to think I should 4-bet here and if I do then I know it is a bluff so my hand becomes irrelevant. I would rather 4-bet bluff with A2s than A9o for sure. My advice would be:-

1) Don"t play from from EP
2) Open with them don"t limp or flat call (if somebody ahead of you has raised just fold) and plan to fold to a 3bet in most spots
3) Use then to steal the blinds as you have equity when called
4) If you hit your ace of the flop pot control should be default mode
5) Don"t be afraid to fold the ace if it is beat.

If you have less than 20BB then the suited ones are as I said good hands to 3-bet all-in against aggressive players (you should be able to spot these) as you get so many folds, and have equity when called. This is better from LP for obvious reasons.

That"s not a bad starting point other people can add to this I am sure.

[DodgyEnd (Tom APAT.be)]

this is some good information.

I have to say I don"t play them enough I think. I know I should be raising in some spots in late position but I avoid it too much... this info is really helpful, thanks!

[kevod85]

Thanks Rodders very helpful reply!

[Swinebag]

generally fold Ax though it is in my opening LP range. I just make sure I don"t go mad if I hit the A (or the x)

Will generally take a punt with Ax suited if I"m deep enough and will peel them in the blinds (possibly a leak)

[Drewski]

Hi Swinebag

Sounds like you are most likely over playing them post flop if you are busting out/crippling yourself often with these hands. When you play this type of hand it is critical that you have a plan for post flop play. Ask yourself why are you making this play before you take your action. The only time I"m really playing a rangy ace is;

1) LP unopened
2) Blind stealing
3) Other good spot, like a loose passive player has entered and I"m targeting him to take the pot on the flop etc.

As AAroddersAA says pot control is your default play unless a good spot or you catch 2 pair or better and playing these hands hoping to catch 2 pair is bad play unless maybe very deep against another deep stack.

To answer your question try taking AJ-A2 out of your range from EP and MP and see if there is any improvement in your results.

Interesting question: How long or how many hands you would do this for before analysing if it made a difference (regardless if you agree with the advice)?

Thanks

[Kronsdat]

You have had some very good advice there I think.  Basically you don"t want to be playing these hands unless you are very sure about why you are playing them and how you are going to respond to the different scenarios that can arise post flop.  If you eliminate them from your play except in the sort of situations Drewski describes you will see an improvement for sure.

[Swinebag]

Good post drewski though I think you didn"t quite read mine (or got me mixed up with OP)

[Drewski]

Good post drewski though I think you didn"t quite read mine (or got me mixed up with OP)

Sorry yes, was meant as a response to the OP

[noble1]

generally fold Ax though it is in my opening LP range. I just make sure I don"t go mad if I hit the A (or the x)

Will generally take a punt with Ax suited if I"m deep enough and will peel them in the blinds (possibly a leak)

once upon a time on a Sunday night how did u play raggy aces on a final table Rob [i have one particular in mind ]

[Swinebag]

generally fold Ax though it is in my opening LP range. I just make sure I don"t go mad if I hit the A (or the x)

Will generally take a punt with Ax suited if I"m deep enough and will peel them in the blinds (possibly a leak)

once upon a time on a Sunday night how did u play raggy aces on a final table Rob [i have one particular in mind ]

3 bet called it off - got there

[Santino67]

Well said Rodders. Use suited aces early doors when a bit of fishing isn"t too bad, just don"t fall in love with them. Use them later in late position only to raise and pick up blinds, then tread carefully if you"re called and hit. Pot control FTW. Hands like A9os A8, A7 can turn into a painful mess if you only hit your ace.

[Santino67]

[Drewski]

 Love the all in on the river on this board. Nice