Author Topic: Let's Talk HUD's  (Read 14432 times)

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Chipaccrual

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Let's Talk HUD's
« on: October 07, 2013, 14:15:49 PM »
Reasonably hot topic at the moment.

I"ve never used any of the poker software on the market, but often read posts from guys on here who are clearly using software to provide then either statistics on their own play or to track the play of others.

Although I analyse numbers, statistics and trends for a living, I couldn"t tell you what any of the poker terminology coming out of these software packages means, let alone gain any useful information towards my game.

So here"s a few questions for those in the know (or not) :-


What software do you use ?

How much of a benefit do you think it gives you ?

Why did you choose to use software ?

What are the costs, and do you feel it offers you value for money ?

How are you using the software ?  Stats during play, or analysis afterwards.

Does it make your poker play more serious, and less fun ?


Hope this will be an interesting discussion for players of all levels.

TheSnapper

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 14:36:16 PM »


So here"s a few questions for those in the know (or not) :-


What software do you use ? Still on HM1, contemplating upgrade to HM2 but not sure I need the additional complexity

How much of a benefit do you think it gives you ?  Invaluable if you multi-table

Why did you choose to use software ?  To keep up with the opposition

What are the costs, and do you feel it offers you value for money ?  HM2 is $99, HM support is excellent, if you multi-table, particularly cash games, it will pay for itself very quickly even at micros by highlighting profitable spots.

How are you using the software ?  Stats during play, or analysis afterwards. Both

Does it make your poker play more serious, and less fun ? What has fun got to do with it?


Hope this will be an interesting discussion for players of all levels.
"Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

nosey-p

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 16:09:21 PM »
All should be band, end off thread  ::)

Chipaccrual

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 16:28:41 PM »

All should be band, end off thread  ::)


Now come on, you can"t just burst into the room, shout that out, and slam the door behind you.   ;D

Do you really think that ?  If so, why ?


Clearly there are plenty of social players using software, based on the comments on other threads on the forum.  Is it unfair, if it is available to anyone that wants to buy them ?

Charlie44

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 16:44:38 PM »




What software do you use ?   Poker Tracker 4

How much of a benefit do you think it gives you ? Gives a lot of info about oppos and to investigate own leaks.

Why did you choose to use software ? Beacause I would be playinga at a disdavantage otherwise.

What are the costs, and do you feel it offers you value for money ? One of payment on purchase of $$99. Yes.

How are you using the software ?  Use hud for use during play, and stats to investiaget own weakness afterwards .

Does it make your poker play more serious, and less fun ? Perhaps.


Hope this will be an interesting discussion for players of all levels.

duke3016

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 17:15:51 PM »
Don"t play enough to bother with this kind of software. I can see why people who play volume use them though.

wizzlet

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 21:08:36 PM »
I use Tournament Indicator and Omaha Indicator

Why use TI?
Because they are very cheap
HUD is clear and repositionable

How do I use them?
Mainly for the PFR and VPIP stats, and only so that I can identify who I can steal from with 3bets. I will look at cbet% and  fold%ages, it doesnt give me stats by seat position tho.
I never look at my own stats  :-\

Is it value for money, probably not.

I use Omaha Indicator for my O8 cash games and its useful as it gives odds vs pot odds etc, handy in a split game. Again VPIR% is useful to spot the fish quicker.

Chipaccrual

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 21:32:33 PM »
When you say identify who I can steal from with 3bets, is it a case of if a stat is above a certain level, then it"s an automatic 3bet for you with any two cards ?

(Without giving away your entire poker strategy, obviously)   ;D

Chipaccrual

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 21:33:50 PM »
And a couple of general questions to add to that


Does it not make your game quite robotic ?

How do you find playing live when you don"t have all this information ?

TheSnapper

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2013, 21:52:57 PM »


Does it not make your game quite robotic ?



No, quite the opposite, playing with a hud takes practice, like everything else and initially there is potential to be somewhat robotic. As you become more accustomed to using the hud and learn what to look for, the sky"s the limit as far as discovering exploitable tendencies.


Quote from: Chipaccrual


How do you find playing live when you don"t have all this information ?



I actually think it helps live play, the hud highlights exploitable tendencies and you begin to notice these same tendencies when you have to take the stabilisers off and play live.

"Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

AAroddersAA

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 23:37:18 PM »
I use PT4, Find it better than HEM which I have also tried.

The main benefit is being able to identify profitable spots more easily. This is accomplished by both looking at the stats real time. The main stats I use are the normal ones VPIP, PFR and 3-bet. These offer a true reflection of players tendencies with a relatively small sample size. It is worth saying that the stats do not replace player notes but complement them. You can also use them to review hands after the event and find spots where you could have improved your session. This, like posting on a strategy forum, will help you make the right decisions more naturally in game. You can also examine other regs and make notes on them to gain another in game advantage on them.

The benefit is that I am likely to have a pretty decent in game edge against other regs in the game as I have stats (which are fine tuned and not just the standard ones) and at my level the amount of work I do probably beats most of the opposition. It is easy to identify good spots to steal the blinds, 3-bet light, cbet profitable. You still need to be making notes on bet sizing and that kind of thing though in game. It also lets you see if you are playing too loose or tight and see other leaks almost before they happen. Last month I identified, in cash games, I was in too many pots in EP so tightened my ranges in certain positions to counter this. Without Poker Tracker I could not have seen this so easily.

Why did I choose to use it? Why wouldn"t I? Seems like a no brainer.

I recently upgraded PT3 to PT4 and it cost $99, has already paid for itself playing just $10nl.

How am I using the software - See above

Does it make poker more serious and less fun? No - it adds to the game and gives it an extra dimension and helps me make the right decisions. I play for the satisfaction of playing well and gaining extra understanding of the game, not for the money so no it does not make it less fun, the opposite is true if anything although satisfaction would be a better word than fun. When you 4-bet the BB from the button with 97os and know it"s profitable to do it, then you get the spots right time and time again, this gives satisfaction as it feels you have elevated your game to a new level of understanding imo.


When you say identify who I can steal from with 3bets, is it a case of if a stat is above a certain level, then it"s an automatic 3bet for you with any two cards ?

(Without giving away your entire poker strategy, obviously)   ;D

With 3-bets then I would say those situations do obviously exist but people will eventually pick up on this so doing it every round of the table is not going to work that well. You have to look at your own 3-bet stat and your opponents PFR stats and Fold to 3-bet stat. I have seen Brendan make the excellent point on these forums that positional stats are far more accurate than overall stats in this type of spot. There are good spots on some tables where you can steal the blinds literally every round though. You would use the Fold to Steal stats for this.

Just as an example though if you have a player who over a good sample size is opening like 60% of buttons when it folds to him (You use the Att to Steal stat to identify this) and folding to 80% of 3-bets (make sure you get the right stat for this one) then 3-betting ATC will be profitable until he adjusts to you. These spots are more common than you might think.


And a couple of general questions to add to that


Does it not make your game quite robotic ?

How do you find playing live when you don"t have all this information ?

No, not at all it helps. Basically as you are using the stats you are learning new plays and learning to identify the types of player you can make these plays against. It will work very well in a live game and will make your live game better (and yours is already pretty damn good Leigh).

Sorry for the long post, hope it makes sense.
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Still trying to think of something amusing to write in this bit.

AAroddersAA

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 23:48:18 PM »

I use Omaha Indicator for my O8 cash games and its useful as it gives odds vs pot odds etc, handy in a split game. Again VPIR% is useful to spot the fish quicker.

See the point don"t entirely agree what % would you say indicates a fish? I have more thoughts on this (which could be entirely wrong btw) but am interested in the answer to this first.
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Still trying to think of something amusing to write in this bit.

mporter123

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2013, 17:28:15 PM »

TheSnapper

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2013, 17:45:20 PM »
Is this a spying mission Leigh? in support of Rob Yong"s recent absurd observations and stance around the current status of online poker.
"Being wrong is erroneously associated with failure, when, in fact, to be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it elevates someone to a new level of understanding."

SirPercival

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Re: Let's Talk HUD's
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2013, 18:55:12 PM »
I think it is absurd to call Rob"s observations absurd ;)

I think everyone is jumping on the HUDs/Tracking element of Robs post when in actual fact there is a much bigger picture.

I have used PT3 and enjoyed using it, particularly for analysing my own game. It helped my game and helped me make money. I also however support Rob"s views and have equally enjoyed playing the DTD club cash games that have banned tracking software.

There is no right/wrong answer on whether someone should use software. Everyone plays for different reasons and software will appeal to some (Brendan/Steve) and not to others (Wayne). It isn"t cheating but it is important to recognise that many people percieve it as cheating and here in lies one of the problems.