Seat buyins and reservations.

[GiMac]

Am I the only one who thinks the cart is being put before the horse here?

Surely in any real life commercial world those people who are willing to stump up their hard earned cash in advance to pay in full for something should be catered for ahead of those only willing to "reserve" the option to buy something?

Example: I"m selling a car for £5k, two people want to buy it the first wants to pay a non refundable deposit of £100 and pay for the car in 2 weeks, the other is willing to pay the full £5k today. Who would you sell the car to?

Is this not simple? Is this not how real life works? Is this not simple economics? Is this not obvious?

Discuss.

[pables]

I reserved a seat via eventbrite as I couldn"t guarantee I was going to be able to play any sats or be able to buy in online at the time of buy in...

I don"t neccessarily agree with the non refundable bit, bit like credit card fee but if all else fails bring back the click fest I loved it

F5 FTW

[AMRN]

Am I the only one who thinks the cart is being put before the horse here?

Surely in any real life commercial world those people who are willing to stump up their hard earned cash in advance to pay in full for something should be catered for ahead of those only willing to "reserve" the option to buy something?

Example: I"m selling a car for £5k, two people want to buy it the first wants to pay a non refundable deposit of £100 and pay for the car in 2 weeks, the other is willing to pay the full £5k today. Who would you sell the car to?

Is this not simple? Is this not how real life works? Is this not simple economics? Is this not obvious?

Discuss.

^This.

I hate the £5 reservation tax....  I"m more than willing to pay full amount many months in advance to reserve my seat, and wish we had that opportunity.

wants to pay a non refundable deposit of £100 and pay for the car in 2 weeks

The £5 isn"t a non refundable deposit - if it were, I suspect most people would be much happier with it. It"s a non refundable additional charge.

[ian.ski309]

I hated the idea of a £5 reservation fee when it was first announced and I said so. I still hate it but it has become a necessary evil if you want to guarantee a seat at a venue with limited capacity. I may be wrong but the only consolation is that it has generated approximately £500 towards the APAT coffers which I assume offsets the costs due to reduced sponsorship these days.

[GiMac]

^This.

I hate the £5 reservation tax....  I"m more than willing to pay full amount many months in advance to reserve my seat, and wish we had that opportunity.

wants to pay a non refundable deposit of £100 and pay for the car in 2 weeks

The £5 isn"t a non refundable deposit - if it were, I suspect most people would be much happier with it. It"s a non refundable additional charge.

Precisley this ^^^^^^^


Dear APAT

At the end of the day WE ALL KNOW THIS is just a stealth fee, we are believe it or not reasonably intelligent people, so why don"t you just charge a £10 fee for entry, because in reality that"s what you are forcing people to pay anyway? Other places like DTD charge £10 for a £50 game, people pay it because they are happy with the service being provided and DTD are not afraid to charge it because they know they offer a good product.

So in summary APAT grow a pair, have faith in your product and brand and stop fvcking your clients about please.

Best Regards

GiMac

APAT Team Scotland Captain 2013/14

[GiMac]

I hated the idea of a £5 reservation fee when it was first announced and I said so. I still hate it but it has become a necessary evil if you want to guarantee a seat at a venue with limited capacity. I may be wrong but the only consolation is that it has generated approximately £500 towards the APAT coffers which I assume offsets the costs due to reduced sponsorship these days.

Ian you are right and of course it goes straight to APAT's coffers which I am sure we are all happy about. But it"s such a chew on, and tbh is slightly disingenuous of APAT. They should just be up front and charge it as part of the buy in and stop with all this faffing about imho. Plenty of forums have introduced a fee to be a member, the Newcastle Poker Forum for one springs to mind and you know what? I willingly pay my £10 a year to be a member there because I know it pays for the upkeep of the site in these times of austerity when there is less of the poker sponsorship pie to go around, just as I was happy to pay my £10 to APAT for my staking "licence".

[LombBomb]

^This.

I hate the £5 reservation tax....  I"m more than willing to pay full amount many months in advance to reserve my seat, and wish we had that opportunity.

wants to pay a non refundable deposit of £100 and pay for the car in 2 weeks

The £5 isn"t a non refundable deposit - if it were, I suspect most people would be much happier with it. It"s a non refundable additional charge.

Precisley this ^^^^^^^


Dear APAT

At the end of the day WE ALL KNOW THIS is just a stealth fee, we are believe it or not reasonably intelligent people, so why don"t you just charge a £10 fee for entry, because in reality that"s what you are forcing people to pay anyway? Other places like DTD charge £10 for a £50 game, people pay it because they are happy with the service being provided and DTD are not afraid to charge it because they know they offer a good product.

So in summary APAT grow a pair, have faith in your product and brand and stop fvcking your clients about please.

Best Regards

GiMac

APAT Team Scotland Captain 2013/14

Strong words but can"t disagree.  Saying what no-one else wanted to say.  

[Duffy]

I agree with GiMac whole heartedly. Was willing to keep my opinion to myself in the begining as it seemed to be running quite smoothly, but with the debacle that seems to be unfolding now i think it needed said.

[GiMac]

Strong words but can"t disagree.  Saying what no-one else wanted to say. 

You are right fella, the number of people I have spoken to who have been moaning about this is a lot but most people don"t speak up they either suffer or vote with their feet.

[Gup9y]

I also agree but just found out yesterday.

[AJDUK]

Strong words but can"t disagree.  Saying what no-one else wanted to say. 

You are right fella, the number of people I have spoken to who have been moaning about this is a lot but most people don"t speak up they either suffer or vote with their feet.

I"ve mentioned it on here a number of times. Can pay, won"t pay. But putting up the fee for everybody won"t help the cause either. Your suggestion would make a standard APAT £75+12.50 for everyone. That won"t go down too well at many venues either IMO. Paying a membership fee could be counter-productive unless you restrict events to paying APAT members, which also in itself would be counter-productive.

Deal with casino"s/cardrooms that respect the value of the extra business they will do at the gambling tables and the bar. Having a busy cardroom/casino at 2pm on a Saturday/Sunday afternoon has to have a value in these cash strapped times, surely? Although in saying that I"ve never tried it and accept this might be a pipe dream.

[Gup9y]

Fellow APAPers

The situation of the additional £5 fee to make sure that you get a seat is one that I have to let my feelings be known. Under no circumstances can we allow this to become the norm. By paying this fee we are allowing this to continue. We travel the length and breadth of the country to compete in these events knowing that the money means little but winning that gold medal or bracelet means everything.

We play because we love everything APAT stands for but if you want to take your trousers down and let them all get a free ride, then go ahead. I for one will be passing.

[pables]

As I said previously I have utilised this service to guarantee a seat.
I much prefer the idea of paying up front in full early doors to guarantee my seat


I"m sure this will roll on

[GiMac]

As I said previously I have utilised this service to guarantee a seat.
I much prefer the idea of paying up front in full early doors to guarantee my seat


I"m sure this will roll on

It"s ok it probably wont cos it will get easier and easier to get a seat the more people they piss off fella.

[Des]

There was a 16 page discussion on seat reservation at the start of the season and all the reasons that we went forward with it are in the thread. 

http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=13851.0

Whether you like it or not the seat reservation option has been a great success.  A number of players have played APAT for the first time because they"ve been able to land on the site and click one button to reserve a seat.  The charge is there to ensure players don"t reserve without being fairly certain they intend to travel.  And those that do travel do so in the knowledge that they have a seat locked up and can plan their travel and accommodation in advance.

Some players don"t want to pay it and I respect their views completely.  Andy is a good example, he has played the events he wants to and hasn"t needed to pay it.

The money APAT makes from offering the service is helpful, but is not a factor in the grand scheme of things. Simplifying the option to get a player into the event without adding a whole lot of admin is what this is about.  In fact I"ll make sure the £340.20 that APAT collected is put into an APAT freeroll for players who are playing in Glasgow, after the event. Furthermore, if you have paid the £5 fee for Glasgow and feel you"ve had your "trousers pulled down", then post here and I"ll make sure you get the appropriate refund to your APAT online account. 

Not sure why such an aggressive tone was taken by Gordon and Paul, but you are way off the mark if you think this is a stealth tax or whatever.  If you want to know why we did it at the start of this season, read the thread that I linked to. And finding you don"t have a seat two weeks out, when they"ve been available since July is no excuse. 

Finally, if you hate the reservation fee post here.  Similarly if you"ve used it and are ok with it, post here.  It"s been running for four months now, tell us what you think.  A few players have talked about hearing others complain about it....this is what this forum is here for - speak to us. 

But do so in a civil tone please.  No more of that aggressive nonsense above because we have never let that go on APAT and won"t do for this either.