I didn't take my seat for start of a tournament- what should happen to my chips?

[IrishTom]

We had a recent discussion via the forum on this very topic - we decided for Glasgow that those who have paid in advance of the event, or paid on the day (but still in advance of the event starting - or even a Late Entry or Alternate who does not take their seat straight away?) should have chips placed on the table and then be blinded off until the player takes their seat or the chips run out.

There are arguments that if they remain in play and get blinded off then it affects, either positively or negatively, players at that table (and dependent on position to the stack in question) - but also that it (sort of) affects players on other tables as they are not at the same (dis)advantage? to avail of the "free stack" up for grabs - a bit all too anal for me I have to say, but for some it obviously isn"t and could be an important part of their game.

Personally I don"t have any particularly strong view on this, but I do sway towards the view that what we"ve agreed for Glasgow should not be the case - I believe at a certain point the chips should be removed from the event - in the case of Glasgow I would have removed them at the start of the first break and therefore allowed Late Entries/Alternates to enter the event at this point - that of course is not good for the player who I would just have removed from the event, but I believe it is good for APAT, the tournament and those players who were unable to get a seat to start with (ie Alternates) overall.

Whether the chips get "blinded off" or alternatively, sit with the dealer to give to the player when they take their seats, I have no strong view on - but come the first break, I personally think they should be removed from the event. 

I have seen many different ways that this problem/scenario has been approached - there is no consistency between event organisers.

At the recent IPO Dublin (well done Mr Hall!) the chips were in the control of the Dealer, they were not put into play until the player took their seat and if the player failed to take their seat by the end of the "late entry" stage then the chips were removed from the table/dealer and the player removed from the event (I can only presume with the loss of their entry fee).

Would be interested in your views.

ps this discussion does NOT affect Glasgow!

[nosey-p]

If they have paid then the chips are in play nomatter if they are present or not

[KarmaDope]

At DTD if you buy in online for a comp, you start with a full stack assuming you arrive before the end of the re-entry period.

Other places have the chips in play from the start.

I like the DTD way but it does often have an issue where if you arrive and there are no seats, sometimes you have to wait for a seat to become available.

Oh, and AFAIK, if you don"t turn up you get your money back.

[TheSnapper]

If they have paid then the chips are in play nomatter if they are present or not

not in all card rooms

[Matt D]

Aye, I"ve seen it done many ways. Of the ways I"ve seen, I prefer the DTD solution that Adam mentions.

[fandango]

Chips should be in play IMO.. Think it"s standard practise for most tours?

[Jon MW]

If they have paid then the chips are in play nomatter if they are present or not

This - I think it"s a terrible idea to suggest that somebody could pay for a product (tournament entry), and then be denied it for showing up late.

It"d be like booking a hotel room but them letting somebody else have it just because you haven"t checked in by midnight, for example.

[Fatcatstu]

Chips should be in play IMO.. Think it"s standard practise for most tours?

+1

[KarmaDope]

If they have paid then the chips are in play nomatter if they are present or not

This - I think it"s a terrible idea to suggest that somebody could pay for a product (tournament entry), and then be denied it for showing up late.

It"d be like booking a hotel room but them letting somebody else have it just because you haven"t checked in by midnight, for example.

Hotels do this, you know!

[Paulie_D]

If they have paid then the chips are in play nomatter if they are present or not

This - I think it"s a terrible idea to suggest that somebody could pay for a product (tournament entry), and then be denied it for showing up late.

No-one is denying them a seat, they are being penalised for arriving late.

A "re-entry" period is just that...an option to re-enter.

Late entry comps are different animals and chips should not be taken from the start.

It"d be like booking a hotel room but them letting somebody else have it just because you haven"t checked in by midnight, for example.

That"s a common "rule" at many chain hotels....not that it is necessarily a good thing.

[Jon MW]

If they have paid then the chips are in play nomatter if they are present or not

This - I think it"s a terrible idea to suggest that somebody could pay for a product (tournament entry), and then be denied it for showing up late.

No-one is denying them a seat, they are being penalised for arriving late.

A "re-entry" period is just that...an option to re-enter.

Late entry comps are different animals and chips should not be taken from the start.

It"d be like booking a hotel room but them letting somebody else have it just because you haven"t checked in by midnight, for example.

That"s a common "rule" at many chain hotels....not that it is necessarily a good thing.

lol I know some hotels do it - it"s pretty obviously a bad thing though

and

...Whether the chips get "blinded off" or alternatively, sit with the dealer to give to the player when they take their seats, I have no strong view on - but come the first break, I personally think they should be removed from the event.  ...

That sounds like suggesting denying people a seat to me.

And I"ve arrived at an APAT tournament after blinding off to the first break, you"re still left with a playable stack so I see no reason at all to remove such a player from the tournament.

[Scousebill]

I think if you have paid your fee before the competition starts then your blinds should be in play from the start. I don"t agree with using it as a "late reg guaranteed seat" type of thing. It could be that you have paid and can"t make it for the start and somebody else has took a chance with turning up on the day and finds it is full only to see people arrive after them, join a table and start playing.
Late reg is different in that you are actually joining late and taking the chance that there are actually seats available for you within that period and for that risk you do deserve to join with a full chip stack.
In last weeks IPO the chips were with the dealer and the cards were still dealt to the seat, that was until the dealer forgot about it. I mentioned it twice during the late arrival period and once the dealer apologised and dealt to the seat again but the second time the players on the table said to just carry on nine handed...
Personally, I tend to be ready at the start and very rarely do I use the late reg facility online... Definitely sit down for the start of a live tourney though....

[Paulie_D]

I think if you have paid your fee before the competition starts then your blinds should be in play from the start. I don"t agree with using it as a "late reg guaranteed seat" type of thing.

This...+1000.

PLUS...Under no circumstances should chips be removed from play once the buy-in has been paid.

I could be wrong but I have a vague recollection of a player not making an APAT event and their stack almost getting into the money a couple of years back.

Never happen in practice (with any proper structure) but if they have paid...they"re to the bitter end...IMO.

[Sugar_Free]

I think if you have paid your fee before the competition starts then your blinds should be in play from the start. I don"t agree with using it as a "late reg guaranteed seat" type of thing.

This...+1000.

PLUS...Under no circumstances should chips be removed from play once the buy-in has been paid.

I could be wrong but I have a vague recollection of a player not making an APAT event and their stack almost getting into the money a couple of years back.

Never happen in practice (with any proper structure) but if they have paid...they"re to the bitter end...IMO.

+1001

Don"t see the difference between not getting there till level 6 and sitting in your seat on your phone for 5 levels. Or what if the player sits down for hand no 1 then says "right, I have to go and check into my hotel" and comes back 4 hours later?

[TheSnapper]

There is no perfect answer to this problem and unfortunately the rules are not uniform across the various card rooms. The chips in play rule is fine though it does cause an unfair positional dynamic around the unmanned stack, good for some and bad for others.

This dynamic is increased as blinds get bigger, which is why I like when these stacks are removed at the first break and replaced with a player.  See rule 15 here http://www.wsop.com/2013/2013_wsop_rules.pdf