APAT Season 8 - [Pre-release Discussion]

[Kronsdat]

Can I just make (another) plea for something (not LPPL) in the North West of England please.  We have a significant number of APAT players, but haven"t had a "home" event for years.  Yorkshire I have to say, has been neglected for even longer!

[Zozzy]

Can I just make (another) plea for something (not LPPL) in the North West of England please.  We have a significant number of APAT players, but haven"t had a "home" event for years.  Yorkshire I have to say, has been neglected for even longer!

As a Lancashire Lad myself I have to agree



.............................but I don"t have a problem neglecting Yorkshire

[Paulie_D]

Crossed from Season 7 WCOAP discussion

I know MTS was the only updater there, and was gonna struggle trying to cover 3 events a day, from midday to 5am.  Shame, as the community loves a bit of coverage.

I think that"s a little harsh because I think Matt at the very least was there for most of it. I only made a couple of days so I could be wrong but at times there were 5 laptops open ready for updating.

Admittedly, at times, they were trying to cover up to three events at a time so even then they were going to be stretched.

Live updates are a not-insignificant cost to APAT and generate no revenue as such. This is true of pretty much all updates be it Blonde/DTD or Sky.

There are occasions when I, and some others, have jumped in to to add whatever we can (gratis) to any live update we can (sometimes with little or no appreciation [or even rubbishing] from some members of the forum) but I, and I"m sure others, often have other things we"d rather be doing.

To summarise, as it were

Without getting into debates about membership charges / extra costs again, an update team costs a non-negligable amount of money for no "actual" return.

If we want it them to continue we have to take what we can get, find some way of covering additional costs or jump in and help.

[Dawnie]

Crossed from Season 7 WCOAP discussion

I know MTS was the only updater there, and was gonna struggle trying to cover 3 events a day, from midday to 5am.  Shame, as the community loves a bit of coverage.

I think that"s a little harsh because I think Matt at the very least was there for most of it. I only made a couple of days so I could be wrong but at times there were 5 laptops open ready for updating.

Admittedly, at times, they were trying to cover up to three events at a time so even then they were going to be stretched.

Live updates are a not-insignificant cost to APAT and generate no revenue as such. This is true of pretty much all updates be it Blonde/DTD or Sky.

There are occasions when I, and some others, have jumped in to to add whatever we can (gratis) to any live update we can (sometimes with little or no appreciation [or even rubbishing] from some members of the forum) but I, and I"m sure others, often have other things we"d rather be doing.

To summarise, as it were

Without getting into debates about membership charges / extra costs again, an update team costs a non-negligable amount of money for no "actual" return.

If we want it them to continue we have to take what we can get, find some way of covering additional costs or jump in and help.

as a newbie I would hae been more than happy to help out and update, surely there must be others the same who weren"t on the sauce and who weren"t playing? yesterday once I was home I was glued to the updates to see how my mate was getting on, so thanks to each and everyone who did contribute.
I might be going over old ground/teaching granny etc but did ppl get asked before hand to do a stint and help out? even if ppl did a Cpl of hours and went down on a rota that might have helped the rather overworked poor sausages who were running like loonies from event to event. If I am around at any of the events in the future you can count me in to help out

[KarmaDope]

I did wonder how long it would take for this thread to be resurrected!

Live updates are a not-insignificant cost to APAT and generate no revenue as such. This is true of pretty much all updates be it Blonde/DTD or Sky.

This is very true. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how much an update team costs. You pay an updater a daily rate plus expenses (hotel/travel/food etc). I"m not going to divulge confidential financial information from APAT but for an event like the worlds, a good freelance updater could charge (including expenses) 4 figures.

Now before you go "how much!" let me lay it out for you. As an example, let"s assume the Worlds are back at Stratford, during August Bank Holiday (as I cant look at next Easter) and we have the same schedule, from 19th August - 25th August. I have agreed to update for my standard rate (this is the number you dont get).

My train costs are £90.
7 nights at Stratford Travelodge (cheapest I found for this worlds) are £346 if I book today.
I generally don"t charge food expenses but when I did the ISPT, food allowance was £20 per day for 3 meals - so £140.

Even if you take out the food expenses, you still dont get much change from £500. Then you actually have to pay the updater. Don"t forget that most of the updaters are freelance, and have many other options - so you have to offer a rate that gets them to take your job rather than another one. In my case, I work as a contractor full time, so I would have to take time off work (unpaid, as a contractor) to cover the week (Tuesday - Monday), plus the second Tuesday to travel back home, plus probably Wednesday to recover from 7 solid days of running round a cardroom. (or, if you work at Wembley, 92 BLOODY STEPS)

Just ask yourself how much you would offer to do it for, solidly, for a week. Then add the expenses on top. Updating is expensive for the company and, tbh, not value for money at all. When Tighty did it for APAT, he was employed full time by APAT AFAIK so didnt draw extra costs. As much as we love MTS/Matt/Tom, they are not Tighty and we shouldn"t expect them to be.

Any help these guys can get, please, do so. But a fair warning - updating is a LOT harder than people think

[KarmaDope]

Oh, and that was for one updater. For an event like the worlds, you need 2 minimum if not 3.

[Curlarge]

I have to be honest and say that I thought of this before the festival and forgot to say it anywhere.

At each live event, why don"t we just set up pages on fb, i.e. "APAT WCOAP 2015 - PLO8" and let everyone update their own experiences. That way their friends get to see who they want to see and others who are more interested in the overall standings get to see everything. Just need to tell everyone where on fb they are and we"re away.

The APAT updaters can simply monitor the fb threads and cnp them into APAT threads as they see fit.

Simplez innit (prolly not but it"s how everyone at Aspers speak it seems).

[KarmaDope]

I have to be honest and say that I thought of this before the festival and forgot to say it anywhere.

At each live event, why don"t we just set up pages on fb, i.e. "APAT WCOAP 2015 - PLO8" and let everyone update their own experiences. That way their friends get to see who they want to see and others who are more interested in the overall standings get to see everything. Just need to tell everyone where on fb they are and we"re away.

The APAT updaters can simply monitor the fb threads and cnp them into APAT threads as they see fit.

Simplez innit (prolly not but it"s how everyone at Aspers speak it seems).

Wonder if the techies can link #apatpoker tweets into this as well?

[MarkTheShark]

I did wonder how long it would take for this thread to be resurrected!

Live updates are a not-insignificant cost to APAT and generate no revenue as such. This is true of pretty much all updates be it Blonde/DTD or Sky.

This is very true. I think a lot of people would be surprised at how much an update team costs. You pay an updater a daily rate plus expenses (hotel/travel/food etc). I"m not going to divulge confidential financial information from APAT but for an event like the worlds, a good freelance updater could charge (including expenses) 4 figures.

Now before you go "how much!" let me lay it out for you. As an example, let"s assume the Worlds are back at Stratford, during August Bank Holiday (as I cant look at next Easter) and we have the same schedule, from 19th August - 25th August. I have agreed to update for my standard rate (this is the number you dont get).

My train costs are £90.
7 nights at Stratford Travelodge (cheapest I found for this worlds) are £346 if I book today.
I generally don"t charge food expenses but when I did the ISPT, food allowance was £20 per day for 3 meals - so £140.

Even if you take out the food expenses, you still dont get much change from £500. Then you actually have to pay the updater. Don"t forget that most of the updaters are freelance, and have many other options - so you have to offer a rate that gets them to take your job rather than another one. In my case, I work as a contractor full time, so I would have to take time off work (unpaid, as a contractor) to cover the week (Tuesday - Monday), plus the second Tuesday to travel back home, plus probably Wednesday to recover from 7 solid days of running round a cardroom. (or, if you work at Wembley, 92 BLOODY STEPS)

Just ask yourself how much you would offer to do it for, solidly, for a week. Then add the expenses on top. Updating is expensive for the company and, tbh, not value for money at all. When Tighty did it for APAT, he was employed full time by APAT AFAIK so didnt draw extra costs. As much as we love MTS/Matt/Tom, they are not Tighty and we shouldn"t expect them to be.

Any help these guys can get, please, do so. But a fair warning - updating is a LOT harder than people think

Adam is bang on here and I endorse everything he says fully.

It"s a ridiculously tough job, and try as you might it"s hard to fully capture everything and portray it in a way that makes for good reading for the forum viewers.

Tighty clearly had/has a flair for the written word that myself and maybe others lack. It"s sure not for a lack of effort. But when action is frenetic players are moving around and you"re trying to relay action without impacting on the table itself it"s pretty rough and a thankless task. Add to that very long hours and many other duties and tasks to perform that are part and parcel of being there as an APAT rep as well as being an updater then it"s really becomes quite a thankless task.

As superb as a host that Aspers were we could pull very little information from them directly. Player lists, table draws, chip counts and player eliminations were nor easily or readily available so for the most part I had to do things very much manually as well as Matt did also when he joined us later in the week. Then add 2 often 3 tourneys going off at once and some unbelievable late finishes with barely any breaks or chance to recharge the batteries (our own as well as iPads and laptops!) and maybe you get a little idea as to why maybe the updates weren"t as regular or as detailed as maybe they have been in the past.

One thing I do think important also is that this is a two way thing. We as updaters bounce off comments and forum posts so we feel there are people interacting and viewing what is being reported on. It just adds to an overall experience and something when reviewed makes it feel more enjoyable.

I know this is something Des and Tom will be looking at for the future and finding ways to hopefully improve or re establish the quality you"re use to.

[LombBomb]

I have to be honest and say that I thought of this before the festival and forgot to say it anywhere.

At each live event, why don"t we just set up pages on fb, i.e. "APAT WCOAP 2015 - PLO8" and let everyone update their own experiences. That way their friends get to see who they want to see and others who are more interested in the overall standings get to see everything. Just need to tell everyone where on fb they are and we"re away.

The APAT updaters can simply monitor the fb threads and cnp them into APAT threads as they see fit.

Simplez innit (prolly not but it"s how everyone at Aspers speak it seems).

^ This is a fantastic idea.  The majority of us have electronic devices and access to Facebook/Twitter.  It wouldn"t be hard to either post your own updates on a common Facebook group or twitter hashtag.  It would make information from the tables more readily available.

[s4ooter]

MTS, dont think i am knocking you in anyway mate.  I think you do great, my point was i just felt like you needed more support.

Oh and the pisstake comments when updating about TG had me in stitches!!

[AMRN]

At my next live APAT, if I bust early and am sticking around, I will lend a hand with live updates...

[Paulie_D]

I have to be honest and say that I thought of this before the festival and forgot to say it anywhere.

At each live event, why don"t we just set up pages on fb, i.e. "APAT WCOAP 2015 - PLO8" and let everyone update their own experiences. That way their friends get to see who they want to see and others who are more interested in the overall standings get to see everything. Just need to tell everyone where on fb they are and we"re away.

The APAT updaters can simply monitor the fb threads and cnp them into APAT threads as they see fit.

Just use the hashtag #apatpoker or whatever (we could decide on individual one per event). That"s searchable on Twitter and FB.

https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/apatpoker?fref=ts

https://twitter.com/search?src=typd&q=%23apatpoker


No need for special groups at all AFAIK.

[Paulie_D]

I forgot to mention that posting on the forum does not require firing up a browser on your mobile device.

The APAT forum supports Tapatalk for easy posting. I use it all the time.

[adilong1]

Erm, one in Yorkshire would be