APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread

[Matt D]

And the moment you"ve all been waiting for...

Introducing the defending undisputed APAT team champions of the world (or at least UK):

Two-time APAT UK Team Champion Phil "FirePhil" Laws (captain)
Season 5 APAT UK Team Championship winning captain Rob "Swinebag" Swindells
Three-time APAT UK Team Champion Rod "rodbuck" Buckman
Two-time APAT UK Team Champion Andy "Cayton" Walker
Two-time APAT UK Team Champion Tom "tfeilding" Feilding
One-time APAT UK Team Champion John "JP" Patten
Two-time APAT UK Team Champion Paddy "ThePadster" Kelly
Future APAT UK Team Champion Rob "willrobrobu" Hallworth

lol!! Excellent!!

[gosling67]

The 888 forum will be newbies for this event. We play team tourneys on the site and always allow (and expect) soft play and chip dumping between team members

Is this allowed in the APAT Team Championship? I"ve read through previous threads and there seems to be a mixture of opinions, so would be happy to get some advice.

APAT recognise that a small amount of soft play may be inevitable in this style of format, however chip dumping and collusion is not acceptable and will lead to penalty and possible team disqualification.  When in doubt, players should apply everyday poker logic to their decision making.

Thanks Tom - good to know where we stand

[Sugar_Free]

The 888 forum will be newbies for this event. We play team tourneys on the site and always allow (and expect) soft play and chip dumping between team members

Is this allowed in the APAT Team Championship? I"ve read through previous threads and there seems to be a mixture of opinions, so would be happy to get some advice.

APAT recognise that a small amount of soft play may be inevitable in this style of format, however chip dumping and collusion is not acceptable and will lead to penalty and possible team disqualification.  When in doubt, players should apply everyday poker logic to their decision making.

Here we go again. Obviously collusion is not acceptable in any format of the game, however poker logic in a team game says that the longer you and your team mates stay in the tourney, the better. If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it. IMHO it is up to the other players on the table to spot this situation and change their game accordingly to take advantage.

[Paulie_D]

If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.

That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!

[Delboy]

Tom, If you are staying at the Quality, Can you leave the blonde teams t shirts at the reception for me to pick up Friday on behalf of Asa please?. Saves you taking them to the casino and me carrying them back again.

Thanks in advance

[LombBomb]

If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.

That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!

I remember this was a hot topic of debate during the Online League.  How can you quantify what is chip dumping in this format, where it"s in your best interests to see teams mates on your table surviving as long as possible, thereby increasing your chances of your team winning?

[Paulie_D]

If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.

That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!

I remember this was a hot topic of debate during the Online League.  How can you quantify what is chip dumping in this format, where it"s in your best interests to see teams mates on your table surviving as long as possible, thereby increasing your chances of your team winning?

There"s a difference in folding Aces to a team-mates all-in to raise-folding to a short-stacked team-mates raise to pass chips.

In case of doubt...call the floor.

[LombBomb]

If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.

That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!

I remember this was a hot topic of debate during the Online League.  How can you quantify what is chip dumping in this format, where it"s in your best interests to see teams mates on your table surviving as long as possible, thereby increasing your chances of your team winning?

There"s a difference in folding Aces to a team-mates all-in to raise-folding to a short-stacked team-mates raise to pass chips.

In case of doubt...call the floor.

All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.

[Paulie_D]

All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.

I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.

[Sugar_Free]

If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.

That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!

I remember this was a hot topic of debate during the Online League.  How can you quantify what is chip dumping in this format, where it"s in your best interests to see teams mates on your table surviving as long as possible, thereby increasing your chances of your team winning?

There"s a difference in folding Aces to a team-mates all-in to raise-folding to a short-stacked team-mates raise to pass chips.

In case of doubt...call the floor.

The difference being that the first one nobody would ever know you had done it to be able to call the floor, the second one could be countered by anyone else at the table knowing you were probably raising light and being able to take advantage.

[LombBomb]

All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.

I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.

The point I"m making is that in a team event format, soft play and chip dumping is inevitable.  Ultimately the team situation is more important than any individual glory.

[Laxie]

All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.

I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.

The point I"m making is that in a team event format, soft play and chip dumping is inevitable.  Ultimately the team situation is more important than any individual glory.

Just because it"s inevitable, doesn"t make it right.  It"s a honour thing and I"d like to think we"ll all play with honour.

[IrishTom]

Tom, If you are staying at the Quality, Can you leave the blonde teams t shirts at the reception for me to pick up Friday on behalf of Asa please?. Saves you taking them to the casino and me carrying them back again.

Thanks in advance

Sure no problem.

[AMRN]

All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.

I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.

The point I"m making is that in a team event format, soft play and chip dumping is inevitable.  Ultimately the team situation is more important than any individual glory.

Just because it"s inevitable, doesn"t make it right.  It"s a honour thing and I"d like to think we"ll all play with honour.

So imagine a situation where the title is close to being decided, and a team has two players left in, and are on the verge of victory. One is huge chip leader and bullying the table, but the other is short-stacked and on the same table. The big stack opens for 2x as he has done for the past ten hands in a row.... his short stacked team mate then shoves for 4x and it folds back round to the original raiser. Clearly, in poker terms he has to call - folding is not an option.......  If he calls, he MIGHT lose the hand and double his team-mate up, but he might also win/suckout and bust his team-mate, and hand the title to another team.  Therefore, in the team context, folding is absolutely correct - but in poker terms, this would be soft play.

I hate this debate - it"s been going on forever. If we are to continue with "TEAM POKER", surely we just have to bite the bullet and recognise that usual poker rules don"t apply when it comes to chip dumping, soft play, etc.  It"s either an Individual tournament or it"s a Team tournament - the rules don"t necessarily fit both formats.

For me, soft play and chip passing should be an integral part of Team Poker, and it"s up to the other teams to see it happening and to take advantage. Like all poker, it"s about adjusting to varying dynamics...... Team Poker could become a really exciting concept if we were to embrace it fully, rather than trying to apply rules that don"t fit the concept.

[Fatcatstu]

See, I think soft play is ok, I won"t be playing massive hands against action from a team mate, but I will also not be chip dumping as I think that is wrong.

There should be some space left in this tourny for the team whose players play best to win, not just the ones who can carry dead weight for longest.