APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread

[Matt D]

What weirdness has been throw up?

Edit: ah, those teams are sat on subsequent tables. That"s fine though isn"t it?

Its the seats as well...kinda suggests that it is not very random.

Players are randomly drawn against teams using a very funky matrix thingy and slotted in to available spaces.

The table numbers in this model are really an abstract concept. You could call them potato, fish, chicken, and star instead. Or swap table number 11 with table number 5, 6 with 24, and 3 with 17.

The randomness isn"t determined by what table your sat at.

e.g. If nobody in APAT is drawn to play someone in 888, and we obviously don"t want more than one team member at each table, then we know both those teams have to be at different tables. You can therefore allocate APAT to tables 1-8, and 888 to tables 9-16. Or you could say APAT go on tables 2,3,6,9,13,22,23,24 and 888 go on tables 4,5,7,10,11,14,15,16 or whatever. As long as they aren"t on the same tables, it makes no difference really.

The randomness of the draw isn"t alterted by the table your sat at. That"s largely irrelevant. e.g. look at GNF. They are on tables 3,6,9,12,15,18,21,24 which are the first 8 multiples of 3. There will be lots of patterns if you analyse the data like this, but it doesn"t actually make a difference to the RandomFactor(TM) of the draw afaik.

You should also find that every player has been given (where possible) a different seat on a different table. So, e.g. you should find you have 1 member of your team in seat 1, another in seat 2, another in seat 3, etc. etc.

Quite hard to explain, may have to leave it to Leigh...

[KarmaDope]

To be honest, I never really understand why teams are kept apart at the start. As soon as we lose 10 players, we run the risk of having 2 team members at the same table so why do we have this restriction at the starting table draw?

As it happens, I would say that 888 especially have an advantage as all their players are on the first 8 tables. From experience in most casinos, it is more likely that table 25 will break first and table 1 will never break, with tables being broken in number order. This means their players will gain in that they will not have to move (bar being in the BB when the TD is balancing) for probably most of, if not all, Day 1 should they make it that far.

I don"t know about any other players/teams, but personally I think all 240 names should just be thrown in the mix with no restrictions on where they sit and if 2 of them happen to be at the same table at the start then that"s just bad luck for them.

[Matt D]

To be honest, I never really understand why teams are kept apart at the start. As soon as we lose 10 players, we run the risk of having 2 team members at the same table so why do we have this restriction at the starting table draw?

I guess because it would suck if 4 team members got drawn to sit on table #1? I personally like the idea of teams being kept apart at the start.

As it happens, I would say that 888 especially have an advantage as all their players are on the first 8 tables. From experience in most casinos, it is more likely that table 25 will break first and table 1 will never break, with tables being broken in number order. This means their players will gain in that they will not have to move (bar being in the BB when the TD is balancing) for probably most of, if not all, Day 1 should they make it that far.

Good point, and one I didn"t think of. I guess it also means their players will never be forced to sit on the same table as another of their players. Unless tables are broken randomly rather than in descending order?... That"s not a big deal to tell the TD to break randomly rather than in descending order though.

I think this can also be sorted by randomly assigning table numbers to the tables in the draw. So table 1 becomes table 18, table 2 table 7, etc...

[AJDUK]

Adam has a very good point re 888, and yours is a good solution Matt. Make it happen.

As to keeping team members apart at the start - I think that has always been a great way of kicking off. If through randomness 4 players from the same team are on table 1 at the start, that would super suck for them and the rest of the table.

[KarmaDope]

Completely agree with Matt's solution, in fact quite gutted i didnt think of it myself!

ETA: TDs try not to break randomly because quite often, tables 1-16 (example) are their regular tables whereas 17-25 are temporary tables so they always break those first (normally out on the casino floor). Changing the table numbers works better IMO.

[Matt D]

Completely agree with Matt's solution, in fact quite gutted i didnt think of it myself!

ETA: TDs try not to break randomly because quite often, tables 1-16 (example) are their regular tables whereas 17-25 are temporary tables so they always break those first (normally out on the casino floor). Changing the table numbers works better IMO.

Yes, definitely changing table numbers works better, for reason you"ve just given. Also, they like to reduce the footprint of the tourney by keeping it all in one area, which only works if you break tables in order.

[gosling67]

Completely agree with Matt's solution, in fact quite gutted i didnt think of it myself!

ETA: TDs try not to break randomly because quite often, tables 1-16 (example) are their regular tables whereas 17-25 are temporary tables so they always break those first (normally out on the casino floor). Changing the table numbers works better IMO.

Yes, definitely changing table numbers works better, for reason you"ve just given. Also, they like to reduce the footprint of the tourney by keeping it all in one area, which only works if you break tables in order.

Yes, definitely looks like we"ve got an unfair advantage with the seat draw (though this may be our only advantage). If you could do something about moving Mr Don Roberts off my table, that"d be great too

- Jenny 888

[nosey-p]

Any live updates on the cash game?

[Paulie_D]

No. Matt and Tom are much too busy hosting at the bar.

[Matt D]

No. Matt and Tom are much too busy hosting at the bar.

Haha, I wish! It"s been absolutely non-stop here with trying to get the table draw sorted and printed. Finally finished now and posted up on the walls.

Stoke aren"t able to put a manual draw into their systems apparently, so instead we"ve printed out 5 lots of table draws and stuck them at various points around the room.

Simply search for your team name, then your own name and you"ll have your starting table and seat

[AJDUK]

Simply search for your team name, then your own name and you"ll have your starting table and seat

It happens that Yorkshire are gonna find that all a bit too complicated like  

[AAroddersAA]

I"ll either be found playing whatever local tourney they have on...or hiding in some corner taking a nap to prep for the all night Super Bowl madness.  Either way, there"s still a whole lot of win to Sunday.  

Get the impression from above they cannot source enough dealers for our side - which means no local game either I would guess. Certainly the Genting website doesn"t show a local game

The other place in Stoke, however, does have a local game. £10+£2 ROE (NLHE/PLO) with £5rb. Could be interesting...or we could set up our own game I would imagine.

Private LO8 cash ftw? (very small stakes obv)

[nosey-p]

Simply search for your team name, then your own name and you"ll have your starting table and seat

It happens that Yorkshire are gonna find that all a bit too complicated like  

What we will do is wait till you all have sat down then take whatever seats are left, easy    

[ian.ski309]

Simply search for your team name, then your own name and you"ll have your starting table and seat

It happens that Yorkshire are gonna find that all a bit too complicated like  

What we will do is wait till you all have sat down then take whatever seats are left, easy    

By "eck... tha"s had a reet grand idea Wayne  

[nosey-p]

Is this pick on Yorkshire day  

Lets see who as the last laugh