APAT English Open - 3 strange hands and out in 45 mins

[Roscopiko]

1st hand of the tourney

GAME #1530206043: Texas Hold'em NL Tournament 2008-05-22 20:00:43
Table 168093872 (Tournament: APAT English Open Buy-In: $10+$1)
Seat 1: b2790757 ($5,000.00 in chips) DEALER
Seat 2: BigParka ($5,000.00 in chips)
Seat 3: Unborn64 ($5,000.00 in chips)
Seat 4: mrejmak ($5,000.00 in chips)
Seat 5: Trademans ($5,000.00 in chips)
Seat 6: 5kinEm ($5,000.00 in chips)
Seat 7: DrpJaw ($5,000.00 in chips)
Seat 8: vorpal72 ($5,000.00 in chips)
Seat 9: Walwyn1 ($5,000.00 in chips)
BigParka: Post SB $0,010.00
Unborn64: Post BB $0,020.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to b2790757 [ , ]
mrejmak: Fold
Trademans: Fold
5kinEm: Fold
DrpJaw: Call $0,020.00
vorpal72: Bet $0,080.00
Walwyn1: Fold
b2790757: Call $0,080.00
BigParka: Fold
Unborn64: Fold
DrpJaw: Call $0,060.00
*** FLOP *** [ , , ]
DrpJaw: Check
vorpal72: Bet $0,270.00
b2790757: Bet $0,560.00
DrpJaw: Fold
vorpal72: Call $0,270.00
*** TURN *** [ ]
vorpal72: Check
b2790757: Bet $0,675.00
vorpal72: Call $0,675.00
*** RIVER *** [ qd]
vorpal72: Bet $1,350.00

What are you doing in this spot.  I feel I am ahead but worried that he has bet the flush with 2 pairs on the board suggest he might have FH and is hoping I have made the flush?

Will reveal his hand and my action after a few posts..

[Jon MW]

I had a very similar hand (overpair/flush combination) early on as well - I folded on the river because I assumed he had been chasing the flush.

Although in your situation there was also the full house and quads possibility to contend with.

I probably would have check folded on the turn, or if he had checked behind me than done it on the river.

But like I said I folded my hand in a similar situation so I might just be too cautious.

[Roscopiko]

I too ended up folding the hand, not the toughest decision as I wasnt really beating anything after all and had no idea how this guy plays.

I announced I was folding 99 and he gleefully showed his  kd ah.

Don"t think I would play this much different if it came up again or should I have?

[Santino67]

I too ended up folding the hand, not the toughest decision as I wasnt really beating anything after all and had no idea how this guy plays.

I announced I was folding 99 and he gleefully showed his  kd ah.

Don"t think I would play this much different if it came up again or should I have?

There were too many hands that could be beating you John so don"t think you did anything wrong. He pushed his luck calling you all the way as you could"ve had a 7 or 8. Given the cards that came out I may have flat called his bet on the flop and checked the turn (esp after he raised your flop bet). TBH the river bet looks a bit desperate to take the pot. had he a flush he"d probably check for fear of a 7 or 8 in your hand and had he a 7 or 8 he"d probably be more likely to put a smaller bet in to tempt you to call.........so I may have been tempted to call after putting so much into the pot already but it would definitely be a tough one.

This is why I much prefer table play so you can get a slant on the body language, facial expressions etc.

Your bad run will turn round soon mate, don"t worry about it & stay focussed.

[Roscopiko]

The key points and information in this hand for me were:

He leads at the flop and I reraise to try and define his hand....when he flat calls I am inclined to go for some kind of drawing hand. Not bigger pair as I think most would defend on this board.

The turn is a v poor card for me in terms of defining a hand.  As he has checked, my pot sized bet here is to discourage a flush draw and again to further define his hand.  Possibly I should have just checked here or made a smaller bet to keep the pot size down?

The river being a diamond is not really a massive issue for me and initially I was going to call as the size of his bet did not really add up given the play before.  On some occasions/tourneys I would probably call but given the format I considered I would find a better spot.

I defo did not even consider he held AK here....hence the post

[Jon MW]

I agree there wasn"t much wrong with your play.

I"ve seen an awful lot of this kind of play recently.

In particular there were at least 2 hands I saw in this tournament which developed:

pf: raise - call
flop:pot bet - call
turn: pot bet - call
river: pot bet - call

And they both turn over overcards to the board.

You could say that the bettor was being creative with a triple barreled bluff and the caller had a good read on him, but I"m more inclined to believe that neither of them really knew where they stood and the bettor was just hoping the other would fold and the caller was just hoping the bettor was bluffing.

Occasionally it might be good players clashing as I suggested, but most of the time it just seems like a really bad advert for the game

[Eck]

1st hand of the tourney

*** FLOP *** [ , , ]
DrpJaw: Check
vorpal72: Bet $0,270.00
b2790757: Bet $0,560.00
..

What are you hoping to achieve here:

what does his calling a min raise tell you?
what would you do if he then min-raised you?

The turn is a v poor card for me in terms of defining a hand.  As he has checked, my pot sized bet here is to discourage a flush draw and again to further define his hand.  Possibly I should have just checked here or made a smaller bet to keep the pot size down?

Why is the turn a v poor card for you what likely holdings has that card completed? obv any 7 or 8 has got there but what holding raises 4x first hand with a 7 or 8 in it with stack that size shouldn"t be many tbh (hindsight obv 20/20).

I agree with the point about keeping the pot size down..on the turn the pot is 1370, you bet 675 therefore he has 675 to call for 2045 or 3:1. If you have him squarely on a flush draw he has 8 outs so about 5:1 so he shouldn"t be making the call unless he expects you to totally stack of on a paired flushing board with an overpair. Therefore as played i don"t think it was a terrible fold as his potential holdings include many over pairs that beat you and calling losing leaves you in fairly poor shape.

fwiw i probably check behind on turn with a view to making the river decision easier, may still have folded river tbh.

anyway just some random thoughts none of which are criticisms however if vorpal wants to start a thread about how well he played AK then........

[kinboshi]

Who hijacked Eck"s account?

[Roscopiko]

Eck...thanks for that some good point to take on.

I defo agree the flop min reraise was poor and didn"t really achieve anything other than keeping it cheap if he was going to come over the top.  In reality it was just me being lazy with the software and thinking it through fully enough.

I think a turn check is okay but I"m then losing control of the hand and then he is defo betting on the river.  In this case I probably make a rash call and win ironically.
In hindsight it was a great bet given his holding and I think I win the hand at this point on the majority of occasions?

[Eck]

Why do u lose control of the hand because you don"t bet? if you have him on fd or if his check says i have a good ace then you are controlling the pot size making the river decision easier. if he has an over pair then you aren"t in control of anything yes/no? Checking behind will mean you probably get a bet on the river but as a large %age of those bets are going to be bluffs by the worst hand then you want him to have a stab at it surely. Okay you may be behind if his AQ got there or he has an over pair but you lost a lot less than if you had bet the turn and called the river and you also get to showdown.

Probably very fishy but again just my thoughts  

Who hijacked Eck"s account?

Bored at work and feeling fairly chirpy   got 2nd in the $20k on dtd last night for $4k so have got Dublin paid for

[kinboshi]

Nice one Eck - and good points on the hand.

See you in the Emerald Isle!