WCOAP 2014 - Bigger and Better...

[IrishTom]

Now that it"s all over, from my pov, even allowing for the few problems we had throughout the week, it was a huge success.  But I"m always keen for player feedback, both positive and negative, so we can look to the future to hopefully make things bigger and better.

So, over to you - be it the venue, dealers, events, structures, buy-ins, registration process etc - whilst promising nothing, I"ll certainly listen to all.

I hope you enjoyed your WCOAP 2014, and look forward to seeing you soon.

Cheers/Tom

PS please keep this feedback to WCOAP only, if you want to offer your thoughts for Season 8, this can still be done (for a VERY short time) via HERE

[Curlarge]

I thought the organisation, both from APAT's, Coral"s and Aspers pov was of a very high standard given the scale of the festival.

Considerations for future sortes could be the cost of hotels, which I fear priced a number of APAT regulars out of these events and also why weren"t all APAT Champions since the last CofC event included in this years event. In the very unlikely event that I ever win an APAT event, I would be very disappointed not to get a chance to play against the other champions, and I know of one or two past champs who feel the same.

Overall 9/10 and well done to all concerned.

[s4ooter]

On the whole i thought it was excellent.

Location, although expensive for travel and accom, found us centered with lots to do.  Food courts, shops etc.  Better than being stuck in the 4 walls of DTD with not a lot going on.

At times the staff and TDs were unsure of what each event entailed, and i think the info could have either been communicated earlier (if it wasnt), or taken in by them (if it wasnt) as there were delays in some events starting as they didnt really know what they were (Cash Tour)

The Heads Up was long winded to get going, but super quick to finish.  Im not sure why they were waiting for 32 1st rd matches to finish when the draw to the final was already mapped out.  We were waiting around ages, when they could have got the 2nd round matches underway to save all the waiting around.  Again, id like to see the structure in those be looked at.  No 75/150 level, and 1 match KO all the way to the final is pretty high variance.  More about running good than being good in that event.  Lammers would help this, as the blinds dont have to restart but if both players have 1 lammer each, then that horrific cooler/beat doesnt cost u the match

Events were all well received, the structures were good in the most part and no matter how hard i try i cannot see how we can fix the limit game dilemma.  As a player, the early structure was really REALLY crapshooty however the games still went on until 5am each time?  Is this the player pool at the FT being really nitty, or the later levels allowing for more play? I really dont know.

Coverage, i felt was poor, the CoC and Team Games being played by the bar and no-one really knew that the CoC was on.  Would this not be one of the flagship events that only your Champions are playing??  As a brand, i think this is key to push....showing non members that APAT offer their seasons champions a chance to play for a trip to Vegas.....i mean thats a big deal. 

I know MTS was the only updater there, and was gonna struggle trying to cover 3 events a day, from midday to 5am.  Shame, as the community loves a bit of coverage.

As before, would love to see some new events introduced, a Mix Max would be good and i deffo think you could increase the Starting Stack of the PLO as that was really shallow from 20 left.

I would also like to see the 6max have an increased buyin to match the main, and run over 2 days also if possible.  Its such a well received event, i think you would easily get numbers as 6 max is now so popular with the intro of the Sky Tours etc.

Finally, i do think the High Roller, needs to be of that.  Has to be £300 plus.  Many locals saw the "High Roller" advertised but refused to play it as it was only £220.  I know some may say that is too expensive for the APAT faithful, but with a year to plan and the satty options available i cant see a problem with it being filled.

All in all, an awesome weekend.

Well Done APAT

[Paulie_D]

[AMRN]

The mix of events, and the structure of those events was simply superb. I challenge anyone to find anything anywhere in the world that gets anywhere near the standard of the WCOAP festival for the cost of the buyins.

Venue was pretty good, although food in the casino was limited and over-priced, but the 30 min breaks meant that the food court outside was accessible.  Drinks in the casino were ridiculously expensive.

Location - hate the fact that hotels are so comparatively expensive. I was priced out of attending for the full week, and had to limit myself to just the weekend. If we were at DTD, I would have played the whole week.

Two gripes:

1. The Live Update thread just isn"t what it was from the Tighty days. Those back at home used to love to follow proceedings - that doesn"t happen any more. In my opinion, the APAT update thread was always so much better than some others, ie Pokerstars, and it was an excellent differentiator.

2. Seat reservation needs looking at. I was playing PLO8, and having lost a big pot, I was left short stacked. Ordinarily I would have stuck around to grind it out, however the Cash Champ tourney was starting shortly, and only had 33 runners - I gambled my PLO8 stack with a view to getting into the cash event, but when I got to the desk with 20 minutes to go until it started, I found myself put at the bottom of a long list of alternates..... and the tourney was running with 7 empty seats which were reserved for people still playing PLO8 or Main Event. Those seats were then freed up after 90 minutes, and some alternates got in, but could only play half of phase one whilst paying the full reg fee, despite having been standing around waiting since the start.   Leaving people standing around for this rebuy event whilst there were empty seats was a shame - it meant that they were disadvantaged if they did get in late, and it meant that the total prizepool was undervalued without the potential for additional rebuys and additional alternates.

[Dawnie]

For a total newbie to the Wcoap I have to say it was amazing. You listened to any gripes, you dealt with them, we moved on, how many times can you say that about a festival of poker!

I think if you do decide to go with Aspers again (and I so hope you do, I know for some it closed the doors but it sure opened it up for others of us) then sitting down talking with John S beforehand will get the right amount of chips and clock.   talking to him yesterday he was saying if it did happen again then they would consider doing sattys for the main and high roller which would be great, i"d be there like a shot.

Accommodation wise, is it worth talking to someone like MET and seeing if there are any cheaper deals around? if people have plenty of notice then they could pick up the cheaper deals that are out there. If not then getting someone to source a whole load of hotels>B+B, 6 months beforehand might help

live updates - I"ve answered this elsewhere, but as a members group surely it wouldn"t hurt the members to help out and do a stint (unless this is not allowed) even for an hour. I know others are paid to do it but isn"t it better to give up an hour of your time and all hands to the deck and get more coverage?

As I said im a newbie so probably all this been discussed/put forward before but IMHO this was one of the best run events I"ve been to and in my best Arnie voice "i"ll be back" :-)

[Paulie_D]

Accommodation wise, is it worth talking to someone like MET and seeing if there are any cheaper deals around? if people have plenty of notice then they could pick up the cheaper deals that are out there. If not then getting someone to source a whole load of hotels>B+B, 6 months beforehand might help

It"s on my list (and Tom's, I think).

MET (Main Event Travel) aren"t always the best option and I"m sure some deals could be done by APAT representatives (or willing volunteers).

The usual issue about booking hotels is the amount of advance notice. With ample (and I"m talking months) notice, deals / discounts are nearly always available for the casual visitor...I do my best to point them out where I can.

Unfortunately, and it"s sometimes common, the final details of APAT events aren"t nailed down until quiet late which has been the cause of some niggles in the past. I know this is one of the things Tom (and Des) want to address for S8.

One final thing on MET...AFAIK, although they "advertise" accommodation for APAT events the last I heard this was not linked to anything by APAT...not even a referral fee....so, unless this has been addressed, you might want to support APAT by booking through their Laterooms referral link.

[Dawnie]

I would deffo go down the willing volunteer route, the list of B and B"s nearby is huge so wouldn"t take too much doing, MET was just an example, I didn"t even know about the laterooms referral scheme but I do now

[CW86]

Just wanted to say thanks apat for another cracking weekend with lots of great poker and enjoyment.

I do think a balance needs to be reached though re number of events (as awesome as it was to try to have so many!) though, as i feel that certain structures (something which i think is one of apats biggest assets) were hindered at times

A final point on the main event structure. Please revert the main event back to its original 45 min clock - and bring down the starting stack if needs be. I"ve been fortunate to go deep in a number of mains this year, and this was by far the shallowest average stack in terms off bbs in the early to mid stages of day 2. I do understand the idea of reducing the clock, but by level 20 we had lost nearly 2 hours of play (the additional 5k does not compensate for this)

Once again want to say a big thanks to all those at apat, especially Mark and Tom who worked tirelessly to provide a great experience for everyone who played.

Hopefully see you all in season 8

[Chris_Austin]

I don"t think I can thank you guys enough for the hard work and effort you put in the last week (and in all the time leading up to it). I had a great time throughout the 5 events/4 days that I played and from my POV as a first timer, couldn"t say a bad thing about any of it.

I would have been quite happy to volunteer some time for live updating but didn"t as i"m unfamiliar with most players and I know Aspers were quite strict about people standing anywhere near the tables during tournaments so without knowing/trusting someone personally/having some kind of poker CV, I didn"t want to put you in an awkward spot of saying thanks but no thanks.

I"ve got more to say but really have to head out now to set up for tonight"s Redtooth. That"s going to be weird to play in after the standard i"ve grown accustomed to over the last week  

[dwh103]

Overall an excellent festival. The choice was excellent, the structures good for the most part. Some tinkering required of course, especially the Heads Up and the later levels of the Ante Only/Stud games (and the early part of the HORSE). Part of the learning process.

Aspers - brilliant location, better than DTD in my opinion as a venue for this. Whilst DTD is an awesome place, I think the available local player pool at Aspers gave the whole festival a boost. 160 runners for a Tuesday 2pm comp is amazing.

The downside:

A general lack of what I can only describe as "precision and visibility", both before and during the event. Going back a few months, more notice would"ve been ideal. I"m still not sure the reservation process works - the sheer numbers of locals able to register may have papered over the issues experienced at the Masters/DTD. Not knowing the inner details of % of reservations being taken up though.

There needs to be greater clarity imo - having all the information tucked away on various parts of the forum just doesn"t make sense to me. Interested parties would visit the website first, so a dedicated landing page for the WCOAP with a clear Schedule, How to Register (with a clear timeline and explanation of the registration options - i.e. holding tanks are closed 2 weeks prior to the event). The link to the forum post from apat.com announcing the festival never had reservation, buy-in or satty details added to the first page. Last minute structure changes, no confirmation of numbers until the night before the first tournament - it did have a slightly disorganised feeling.

The excellent choice did impact the updates, there"s only so much one or two updaters can do.

For all of the above, it"s not that I think it was particularly bad, just that it could be better. Overall - ambitious, and exceeded my expectations. Well done all.

[ian.ski309]

The Live Update thread just isn"t what it was from the Tighty days. Those back at home used to love to follow proceedings - that doesn"t happen any more. In my opinion, the APAT update thread was always so much better than some others, ie Pokerstars, and it was an excellent differentiator.

This   ^^^^^^

Another minor niggle is the propensity to continuously edit and re-edit long posts such as the Player Briefing. I appreciate that this is done in the interests of accuracy, but having already read it, there is no indication which area/section has been edited. Might be worth adding a timed and dated addendum at the foot of OP (per edit), referencing which section has been altered.

[Slim Chance]

Excellent Championships. Great range of events. Great venue.
I think that the Fixed Limit games need to start earlier in the day to stop them going on so late.
Also I think Stud HiLo would get a much better turn-out than Razz.

[fandango]

Have to say enjoyed the WCOAP immensely  enjoyable as always..

A couple of frustrations I encountered over the few days, where not the fault of APAT but I guess has to be down to Aspers, the price of drinks at the bar but this has already been mentioned and I guess the hard core drinker will budget for this in the future.. Also the lack of dealers available over what is obv going to be a very busy festival.. I know the TD was struggling for dealers as I saw his plea on FB asking for them on the lead up. But as Steve mentioned if you do get knocked out early doors and want to play another tournament/cash game/ SNG there was no chance as there was simply not enough dealers to cover, there was plenty of empty tables that could of been put to good use..

Superb casino with great facilities overall, but still have a soft spot with DTD and will always be my number 1 choice, I guess for me it"s like what the crucible is to snooker.

Regarding  games and structures I thought overall it was all pretty spot on, only gripe was PLO8 and PLO where both in conjunction with ME days.. I know most Omaha fans would love to play these both over the festival, but if you want to play ME you have to give one up??  Surely it would be better to perhaps hold one of the other events like Razz or Stud on one of the ME days?

Echo everything what has been said about updates, but realise it can be a thankless task sometimes and i know with what APAT had available over the week the guys did in fact do a great job and huge thanks from me go to Mark, Matt, Tom and Des for the service they provided, I know from speaking to Mayliss over the weekend she has more time off now esp at weekends, how awesome would that be if Des could work his Irish charm and get her to do a couple of events  . Also I know some of the regs would be happy to help out with collecting data for bloggers with chip counts etc or getting hand info from players.. Get irritating man taking the pics?  

Looking forward to seeing what season8 has to offer..

[Paulie_D]

Regarding  games and structures I thought overall it was all pretty spot on, only gripe was PLO8 and PLO where both in conjunction with ME days.. I know most Omaha fans would love to play these both over the festival, but if you want to play ME you have to give one up??  Surely it would be better to perhaps hold one of the other events like Razz or Stud on one of the ME days?

I have to disagree with Carl to a certain extent here.

From a personal standpoint I was more than happy to not play the main event to play both PLO & PLO8 especially this was the first (AFAIK) official APAT PLO8 event. I"d been asking for a PLO8 event for some time and was very happy to see it included in the WCOAP.

Missing the ME was not a concern for me.

I was slightly disappointed that Aspers had a policy of no self-deal though. I can understand the reasoning (mostly) but many other casinos APAT have visited have allowed this albeit with some negotiation as to table/card "rental" and chip stacks.

If APAT members had wanted to do a £20 + £2 self-deal SNG, that can only represent a profit to Aspers, but it wasn"t an option. Perhaps there were legal issues but, AFAIK, we were just denied.