Author Topic: S8 Live Tour Discussion Thread  (Read 104549 times)

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cashman

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #120 on: May 20, 2014, 00:35:00 AM »


I am going to Dublin, what are they playing again  ;D


Flight & Hotel booked


;D
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HERBIEHACKIT

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #121 on: May 20, 2014, 08:02:35 AM »

James, I really am struggling to understand why you are adamant that the Dublin leg should be changed back to NLHE? Do you not believe that APAT should try new things to attract new members? I can understand Brendan"s/Damo"s POV because they live around the corner and it is their "home" leg so to speak, and also that they do not play PLO, but confused as to why you are so against it (and really the only one fighting for it).

You can see from posts above (Paulie, Stu, DodgyEnd, Ger, Rodders etc) that there are more than a few people willing to go to Ireland BECAUSE it is PLO. On top of that, it is well known in the UK that PLO tournaments do not work over here. DTD struggle to get runners for PLO. APAT struggle to get runners for PLO in their side events. If I were in Des/Tom/Matt's shoes, I would much rather try somewhere unknown than somewhere where bigger tours than APAT have tried, and failed miserably. Ireland to me seems the best chance of success for this event. Over the last 2 seasons, Ireland NLHE APAT main events have had <80 I believe each time, with a good number of them being travellers. Something had to be changed.


when irish players are saying they would have played but are going to because it is plo then there is cause for concern. the facts are that nlh is by far and away more popular than plo and hence will attract more players.

if you were to put two games on on the same date with the same buy in and afford them the same promotional drive, then i would suggest the nlh entry would blow plo out of the water.

i would guess that the number of players not going because it is plo will be far greater than those who are only going because it is plo. i am not going because i do not like omaha and only ever play plo if i have to.
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HERBIEHACKIT

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #122 on: May 20, 2014, 08:07:46 AM »


apat is a tour and as such is not about provision for local players. if an event only attracted local players then apat would have failed in that event. apat need to attract local  and players from afar. it has been said that the irish game is not well supported and the hope is plo will change that. my view is it is the cost of ireland that is the problem and plo will reduce the field further. given the event does not attract big numbers and some irish lads will not play plo then attracting players from outside ireland is even more important unfortunately i think this event is doomed to failure.


I pretty much disagree with every point made there.


really. enlighten please
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AAroddersAA

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #123 on: May 20, 2014, 11:10:53 AM »

James, I really am struggling to understand why you are adamant that the Dublin leg should be changed back to NLHE? Do you not believe that APAT should try new things to attract new members? I can understand Brendan"s/Damo"s POV because they live around the corner and it is their "home" leg so to speak, and also that they do not play PLO, but confused as to why you are so against it (and really the only one fighting for it).

You can see from posts above (Paulie, Stu, DodgyEnd, Ger, Rodders etc) that there are more than a few people willing to go to Ireland BECAUSE it is PLO. On top of that, it is well known in the UK that PLO tournaments do not work over here. DTD struggle to get runners for PLO. APAT struggle to get runners for PLO in their side events. If I were in Des/Tom/Matt's shoes, I would much rather try somewhere unknown than somewhere where bigger tours than APAT have tried, and failed miserably. Ireland to me seems the best chance of success for this event. Over the last 2 seasons, Ireland NLHE APAT main events have had <80 I believe each time, with a good number of them being travellers. Something had to be changed.

Where have I said I will go because it is PLO? I have said I will go but not play because it is PLO :-).

Personally I think the only support we have got is from people who to be quite honest would have gone whatever. From what I can read the only people who have said they will go because it is PLO are Tom, Paulie and Stu (and he would have gone anyway most likely - there are good pubs, although he is strangely good at PLO for some reason). At the same time you have Brendan, Damo, James and myself who have said they will not play (although there is a good chance I might do so anyway I admit although I am dead money). When some really good PLO players like Steve Redfern and Dave Howard are not going this says something as well, I am pretty sure those two would be there if it was in England.

All the above said Des and Tom know how to do this far better than I do so I am not saying it can"t work but think it would be a good idea to take Brendan"s advice and partner with an Irish promoter.

I have already booked return flights from Cardiff. It will still be an awesome weekend whatever, you coming?
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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #124 on: May 20, 2014, 11:53:13 AM »


James, I really am struggling to understand why you are adamant that the Dublin leg should be changed back to NLHE? Do you not believe that APAT should try new things to attract new members? I can understand Brendan"s/Damo"s POV because they live around the corner and it is their "home" leg so to speak, and also that they do not play PLO, but confused as to why you are so against it (and really the only one fighting for it).

You can see from posts above (Paulie, Stu, DodgyEnd, Ger, Rodders etc) that there are more than a few people willing to go to Ireland BECAUSE it is PLO. On top of that, it is well known in the UK that PLO tournaments do not work over here. DTD struggle to get runners for PLO. APAT struggle to get runners for PLO in their side events. If I were in Des/Tom/Matt's shoes, I would much rather try somewhere unknown than somewhere where bigger tours than APAT have tried, and failed miserably. Ireland to me seems the best chance of success for this event. Over the last 2 seasons, Ireland NLHE APAT main events have had <80 I believe each time, with a good number of them being travellers. Something had to be changed.

Where have I said I will go because it is PLO? I have said I will go but not play because it is PLO :-).

Personally I think the only support we have got is from people who to be quite honest would have gone whatever. From what I can read the only people who have said they will go because it is PLO are Tom, Paulie and Stu (and he would have gone anyway most likely - there are good pubs, although he is strangely good at PLO for some reason). At the same time you have Brendan, Damo, James and myself who have said they will not play (although there is a good chance I might do so anyway I admit although I am dead money). When some really good PLO players like Steve Redfern and Dave Howard are not going this says something as well, I am pretty sure those two would be there if it was in England.

All the above said Des and Tom know how to do this far better than I do so I am not saying it can"t work but think it would be a good idea to take Brendan"s advice and partner with an Irish promoter.

I have already booked return flights from Cardiff. It will still be an awesome weekend whatever, you coming?



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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #125 on: May 20, 2014, 12:58:17 PM »


All the above said Des and Tom know how to do this far better than I do so I am not saying it can"t work but think it would be a good idea to take Brendan"s advice and partner with an Irish promoter.



Steve, perhaps it"s not clear from the announcement that the PLO is, in fact, in partnership with a promoter otherwise we"d be in a casino.

It"s Lorand (Larry) Santo, a long time and much respected poker events manager in Ireland who TDs at many Main Events in Ireland and can often be found in the early hours of most major Irish events running their cash game tables, including the IPO, Irish Open, UKIPT Galway etc.

I"m sure that he wouldn"t put it on if he didn"t feel there would be ample support.

However, it"s not until January, and all we have are the bare bones. We don"t know how many seats there will be or the structure so there"s still a lot of unknowns.

That said, now that Des has said it"s on and won;t be changed, I will be booking flights as soon as Aer Lingus put out their January flights from Southend.
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KarmaDope

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #126 on: May 20, 2014, 13:05:28 PM »


James, I really am struggling to understand why you are adamant that the Dublin leg should be changed back to NLHE? Do you not believe that APAT should try new things to attract new members? I can understand Brendan"s/Damo"s POV because they live around the corner and it is their "home" leg so to speak, and also that they do not play PLO, but confused as to why you are so against it (and really the only one fighting for it).

You can see from posts above (Paulie, Stu, DodgyEnd, Ger, Rodders etc) that there are more than a few people willing to go to Ireland BECAUSE it is PLO. On top of that, it is well known in the UK that PLO tournaments do not work over here. DTD struggle to get runners for PLO. APAT struggle to get runners for PLO in their side events. If I were in Des/Tom/Matt's shoes, I would much rather try somewhere unknown than somewhere where bigger tours than APAT have tried, and failed miserably. Ireland to me seems the best chance of success for this event. Over the last 2 seasons, Ireland NLHE APAT main events have had <80 I believe each time, with a good number of them being travellers. Something had to be changed.

Where have I said I will go because it is PLO? I have said I will go but not play because it is PLO :-).

Personally I think the only support we have got is from people who to be quite honest would have gone whatever. From what I can read the only people who have said they will go because it is PLO are Tom, Paulie and Stu (and he would have gone anyway most likely - there are good pubs, although he is strangely good at PLO for some reason). At the same time you have Brendan, Damo, James and myself who have said they will not play (although there is a good chance I might do so anyway I admit although I am dead money). When some really good PLO players like Steve Redfern and Dave Howard are not going this says something as well, I am pretty sure those two would be there if it was in England.

All the above said Des and Tom know how to do this far better than I do so I am not saying it can"t work but think it would be a good idea to take Brendan"s advice and partner with an Irish promoter.

I have already booked return flights from Cardiff. It will still be an awesome weekend whatever, you coming?



Sorry Steve, think I have misread your post slightly :-) I knew you were definitely going to Dublin!

At the moment I intend to attend that weekend. Whether that be as a player or not is a second question (I have dealt in Ireland in the past so might end up putting myself forward for that if there are vacancies) but also I am waiting to hear something regarding work - but that won"t be until approximately September so I cannot completely commit right now.



James, I really am struggling to understand why you are adamant that the Dublin leg should be changed back to NLHE? Do you not believe that APAT should try new things to attract new members? I can understand Brendan"s/Damo"s POV because they live around the corner and it is their "home" leg so to speak, and also that they do not play PLO, but confused as to why you are so against it (and really the only one fighting for it).

You can see from posts above (Paulie, Stu, DodgyEnd, Ger, Rodders etc) that there are more than a few people willing to go to Ireland BECAUSE it is PLO. On top of that, it is well known in the UK that PLO tournaments do not work over here. DTD struggle to get runners for PLO. APAT struggle to get runners for PLO in their side events. If I were in Des/Tom/Matt's shoes, I would much rather try somewhere unknown than somewhere where bigger tours than APAT have tried, and failed miserably. Ireland to me seems the best chance of success for this event. Over the last 2 seasons, Ireland NLHE APAT main events have had <80 I believe each time, with a good number of them being travellers. Something had to be changed.


when irish players are saying they would have played but are going to because it is plo then there is cause for concern. the facts are that nlh is by far and away more popular than plo and hence will attract more players.

if you were to put two games on on the same date with the same buy in and afford them the same promotional drive, then i would suggest the nlh entry would blow plo out of the water.

i would guess that the number of players not going because it is plo will be far greater than those who are only going because it is plo. i am not going because i do not like omaha and only ever play plo if i have to.


AFAIK after reading through the thread, you, Brendan and Damian Bailie are the only people who have said they aren"t going because it is PLO. Others have said they aren"t going because it is in Ireland (and I direct all of those people to my previous post on Page 8 which has <£60 flights for the weekend, which would be approx. the same or cheaper than to travel to areas such as Edinburgh for example) but would love to play a 2 day PLO event.

I also wouldn"t be surprised to see that there are NLH tournaments on over the weekend - they just won"t be the main event.
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Sugar_Free

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #127 on: May 20, 2014, 13:18:12 PM »

Personally I think the only support we have got is from people who to be quite honest would have gone whatever. From what I can read the only people who have said they will go because it is PLO are Tom, Paulie and Stu


FWIW I"m much more likely to go now that it"s PLO
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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #128 on: May 20, 2014, 13:37:23 PM »



apat is a tour and as such is not about provision for local players. if an event only attracted local players then apat would have failed in that event. apat need to attract local  and players from afar. it has been said that the irish game is not well supported and the hope is plo will change that. my view is it is the cost of ireland that is the problem and plo will reduce the field further. given the event does not attract big numbers and some irish lads will not play plo then attracting players from outside ireland is even more important unfortunately i think this event is doomed to failure.


I pretty much disagree with every point made there.


really. enlighten please


Ok, I was going to just agree to disagree but...

Quote
apat is a tour and as such is not about provision for local players. if an event only attracted local players then apat would have failed in that event.


APAT is a tour and the reason for that is to bring low stakes well-structured tournament to locals who otherwise would not see them.

The tour is absolutely about locals.

Quote
if an event only attracted local players then apat would have failed in that event.


Sorry...that"s just nonsense...If an event sells out with all locals then it"s a success regardless. If it gets a very poor turnout then one could argue that the event has failed.

The only time that this has happened is, basically, Ireland in recent years..to my knowledge.

Quote
apat need to attract local and players from afar.


Not strictly true....APAT likes the fact that members are willing to travel quite long distances to play "away" but they don"t NEED then to turn up. As I said, as long as the event is well supported APAT doesn"t mind where they come from.

Quote
it has been said that the irish game is not well supported and the hope is plo will change that.


Actually, this one is on the money, it is hoped that PLO will attract more locals....nothing else seems to*...I know that the UK players who are willing to travel will only be a small proportion of the full field...but that has  been the case at most "distant" events.

*I do not include our already loyal local contingent who are, unfortunately, relatively small in number.

Quote
my view is it is the cost of ireland that is the problem


If you mean the travel cost, then it"s the perceived cost. It"s already been demonstrated that with advance planning the difference in cost between Dublin, Edinburgh, Leeds, Bristol is very small.

If you mean the cost of "living"...that"s somewhat true..a pint in an Irish pub is more than one in a UK pub....but I"ve had some expensive pints in casinos and big city pubs too.

Quote
plo will reduce the field further


Time will tell. It"s certainly not true in my case and some of the "objections" weren"t over the fact that it was PLO, it was over the choice to have the first PLO "main" outside of the UK. Many have said that they"d love to play a 2-day PLO if it was in Coventry or Stratford (and that may still happen).

Quote
given the event does not attract big numbers and some irish lads will not play plo then attracting players from outside ireland is even more important


I disagree slightly with this...attracting more players FULL STOP is what is being attempted. Where they come from is not really relevant.

Will PLO turn off some of our regular loyal locals? Apparently it will and that is to be regretted but, as has been said, the alternative was nothing so, in effect, they are no worse off.

Their choices were for "no event" or an "event they won"t play"

Quote
unfortunately i think this event is doomed to failure


It may turn out that this will be doomed to failure, I hope not, but at least APAT tried. If it does flop, then at least a lesson  has been learned and perhaps teaming with a promoter for a NLHE event in Ireland will be on the S9 schedule.

Sorry to go on so long..but you asked. :)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 14:59:56 PM by Paulie_D »
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Fatcatstu

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #129 on: May 20, 2014, 14:02:18 PM »
Paulie in diplomatic response to antagonising question shocker.
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Des

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #130 on: May 20, 2014, 14:30:26 PM »
I think the arguments on both sides have been well established now, so let"s please move on from the PLO event...
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Paulie_D

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #131 on: May 20, 2014, 14:58:33 PM »

I think the arguments on both sides have been well established now, so let"s please move on from the PLO event...


True....it"s the only bone of contention. Everybody seems happy with the rest of the schedule.

Now WCOAP on the other hand.

3 flights for the ME
2 day PLO
2 day PLO8

Hey...I can dream can"t I? :)
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TheSnapper

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #132 on: May 20, 2014, 16:15:14 PM »


AFAIK after reading through the thread, you, Brendan and Damian Bailie are the only people who have said they aren"t going



Please do not misquote me Adam! I HAVE NOT SAID THAT ITT.

Cliffs.....


  • The Change to PLO main event is a Sledgehammer when a screwdriver was needed.


  • Partnering with Larry Santo for, a hotel based, Irish NLHE main event, was sufficient change to ensure a record crowd. ( ~150 was max capacity at The Fitz )


  • If there is demand within the Apat Calender for a 2 day PLO event, do so as an addition not as a replacement.




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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #133 on: May 20, 2014, 17:05:50 PM »
Will direct buyin/sats be on Coral?

Paulie_D

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Re: APAT Season 8 Discussion Thread
« Reply #134 on: May 20, 2014, 17:09:42 PM »


Qualifying and buy in details will be announced in the next week.

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