MTT question...

[hi_am_chris]

Ok so down to 18 players in a two dollar rebuy on gala poker, tables are currently 9 handed and your second to act with 99, you have a stack of about 120.000 and players have stacks ranging from about 50 k up to 350/400 k ish. Blinds are 10 and 20k, whats the correct play?

[kinboshi]

Shove.

[hi_am_chris]

im being results orientated but can u fold that hand in the above situation?

[tumblet]

Shove.

im being results orientated but can u fold that hand in the above situation?

If the result you want is a win, then I dont see how you can fold, you have 5 BB after the next hand..

[Jon MW]

I think the 2 factors to consider are:

1. you are very short stacked
2. everybody is short stacked.

As such I think a lot of options could be considered as good valid ways to proceed. Although I think most of them would involve you getting all your money in one way or another.

If your table seems quite lively and you think an all in bet is likely to be called then shoving will probably work, hopefully it will limit the calls to one person.

If your table seems tighter then I would probably limp and hope for a short stack to shove.

If you limp and nobody raises I"d probably shove on the flop.

The only complication I think would arise where you limp and you get 3 or 4 other players limping after you. Judgement after the flop would probably be critical in this case.

The only time I would consider folding with this hand would depend on whether you were looking to cash a bit higher or to win. If you limped and some raisers after you made it clear that you were likely to be all in against 3 or 4 opponents then you are highly unlikely to win, and it is quite likely that at least a couple of players would be knocked out. So the safe option would be to fold your 9"s, but if you want to win overall then I think this would be a great opportunity to gamble - you would be very likely to get knocked out - but if you weren"t then you"d be around the chip lead.

[kinboshi]

There might be an argument to fold, although I"d say it"s a weak one.  I can"t really see any other play though.  Limping is awful, imo.

You are first in with probably the best hand at the moment, and you also have fold equity.

If I was in late position and someone had already moved all-in, then you have a case for the fold.  

[kinboshi]

I think the 2 factors to consider are:

1. you are very short stacked
2. everybody is short stacked.

As such I think a lot of options could be considered as good valid ways to proceed. Although I think most of them would involve you getting all your money in one way or another.

If your table seems quite lively and you think an all in bet is likely to be called then shoving will probably work, hopefully it will limit the calls to one person.

If your table seems tighter then I would probably limp and hope for a short stack to shove.

If you limp and nobody raises I"d probably shove on the flop.

The only complication I think would arise where you limp and you get 3 or 4 other players limping after you. Judgement after the flop would probably be critical in this case.

The only time I would consider folding with this hand would depend on whether you were looking to cash a bit higher or to win. If you limped and some raisers after you made it clear that you were likely to be all in against 3 or 4 opponents then you are highly unlikely to win, and it is quite likely that at least a couple of players would be knocked out. So the safe option would be to fold your 9"s, but if you want to win overall then I think this would be a great opportunity to gamble - you would be very likely to get knocked out - but if you weren"t then you"d be around the chip lead.

How can you limp and hope to see a flop?  What sort of board are you hoping for?  Surely limping only gives your opponents the chance to hit the board and then correctly call when you shove on the flop.  If there are 3 limpers there"s already 60K in the pot, so you are digging yourself a hole by limping pre.

[hi_am_chris]

I hate limping too and i cant min raise because then i have to call anyway, so its between all in or fold but like you i dont like folding 99 in this situation, what would be the cut off though, would you fold any pair in this situation? i hate shoving 22 -66 in this situation, it seems like you always get called by a pair when you do

[Jon MW]

There might be an argument to fold, although I"d say it"s a weak one.  I can"t really see any other play though.  Limping is awful, imo.

You are first in with probably the best hand at the moment, and you also have fold equity.

If I was in late position and someone had already moved all-in, then you have a case for the fold. 

I"d say the stacks are so short that the chances of someone shoving all in are quite high and that everybody would have quite a wide shoving range.

If you limp early and a late position player shoves then you can call them, or if there is a shove and a call then in this position you can still call them and I think there would be a fair chance of being up against 2 Ax"s or an Ax and another pocket pair (whether higher or lower than your 9 I think would be down to luck)

But if you shove then you have got fold equity and you have a fair chance of just picking up the blinds - obviously this is never a bad thing, but I think 9"s in this stage of the tournament with this structure and chip levels are pretty strong and I would want to at least double up, even if that meant doing a risky stop and go and shoving the rest of your chips on any flop.

[Jon MW]

...

How can you limp and hope to see a flop?  ...

A) I don"t hope to see a flop, I hope somebody will shove and I can call it. And with stacks this short I think there"s a fair chance somebody will shove in late position.

B) I also said if you think a shove is likely to be called then you should shove - if a limp is likely to be called by 3 or 4 players then a shove would be likely to be called.

[kinboshi]

I"d be far happier winning the blinds (that are massive compared to my stack, and everyone else"s) than racing against AQ or similar.  Of course, if I win a race I"m happy - but half the time I"ll lose and that"s me shafted. 

First in FTW.

[Jon MW]

I"d be far happier winning the blinds (that are massive compared to my stack, and everyone else"s) than racing against AQ or similar.  Of course, if I win a race I"m happy - but half the time I"ll lose and that"s me shafted. 

First in FTW.

That"s the difference then.

I want to, at least, double up - and I"m willing to gamble for it.

It"s not like Kings first hand - winning a gamble here could pave the way for a win.

[Jon MW]

I"d be far happier winning the blinds (that are massive compared to my stack, and everyone else"s) than racing against AQ or similar.  Of course, if I win a race I"m happy - but half the time I"ll lose and that"s me shafted. 

First in FTW.

Just had another thought - if they hold, "AQ or similar", they"re probably going to call your all in anyway.

So it doesn"t matter whether they hit the flop or not.

[AMRN]

If you"re not going to shove here, then I"d be interested to know what hand you"re waiting for to get your short stack in with. The blinds will probably have been round a few times, and your stack will be gone, before you get Aces. In this situation, any Ace or any pair, and it"s an auto-shove.

Of course, if it were a satellite and you were a couple of seats away from a prize, then the fold might be the right option, but in a cash tourney I can"t think of a player in the world who would fold here.

The only situation that would ever see me consider folding here is if the UTG moves all in first. I want to get my chips in first, and hope to take down the blinds. At 10k/20k, the pot is already worth a quarter of your stack!

[Jon MW]

I"d be happy to take the blinds - but I"d rather double up.