Author Topic: WCOAP - Razz  (Read 19422 times)

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antthecat

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2008, 23:46:57 PM »
thank you so much for the address and start time. special thanks to haworthbanta as the link you gave has given me all the information that i need. it was worth taking the long shot in asking(like me taking a long shot playing in the razz event but it is worth a go) and thanks again for the info to fix my primera.
hope to see some regular faces at london sorry to hear that simon wont be playing razz but hope to see everyone from yarmouth.
good luck at the tables

Ant The Cat
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4th place £35 triple chance freezeout norwich poker club
1st place £5 rebuy palace casino yarmouth
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WarBwastardo

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2008, 11:44:43 AM »
Any chance we could increase the chip stacks to 5,000 for this event?  ;D

lincolini

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2008, 16:17:49 PM »

Any chance we could increase the chip stacks to 5,000 for this event?  ;D


I"m going to request the same thing, and try and give a good case as to why. The same ideas apply to the Stud event too.

Basically its well known that in any Limit event, the average stack for the middle-late part of the tourney is 10 big bets. This is the natural point where you have enough short stacks that people drop out regularly.

Therefore, if we assume the event will be full there will be 50 x 3000 chips in play: 150,000.

If you assume we get to 4 people left, they will have an average of 37500. Therefore by level 14 with limits of 1500/3000, they will have less than 10 big bets each. Because the blinds double within 2 levels after this, going to 2000/4000 then 3000/6000, the tourney will not run much longer than this.

If we assume there is not an abnormal heads up match, it will easily be done before level 16, 4000/8000. This is of course a total of 8 hours play. Dont get me wrong, for a stud and a razz tournament to be in the UK is reason enough to be happy. And even the structure as descirbed above is not bad.

However, my proposal is actually to increase the stack to 4,000, believing it not just be be a round number picked from air, but an increase that gives a little extra playablitiy to the tournaments, and does not lead to an excessive finishing time.

This is becuase, with 50 runners at 4000 chips each, there are 200,000 chips in play. Therefore when 4 handed, average will be 50,000. This means the 2000/4000 and 3000/6000 levels still retain some play. I would expect this tournament to be completed before the end of 8000/16000, and it will pretty much never get beyond 10000/20000, which is 10 hours of play. Even with breaks, this will not take the 2 lucky heads up players beyond 2am. Sure thats a long day, but how often do you get an opportunity to play these events?

I hope what I"ve said makes sense (and that its correct!) and I hope the APAT will consider my thoughts.

Look forward to the day.

lincolini

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2008, 16:24:42 PM »
Sorry to make my post even longer, but a few things I missed.

The reason to increase the starting stack is simply to allow more play in the early and middle stages. With 3000 starting stack, play will be limited by the 200/400 level, but with 4k people get an extra half hour of relative comfort. This thousand makes a lot of difference early on, the extra 33% of chips dont make for a much longer tourney overall.

Id also just like to note a well done and thanks to the APAT for putting on these limit events. And dont get me wrong. The tourney as it is at the moment is ok. Its very playable infact. It"s just that this small alteration could make it really good, and wouldnt actually make it go on too long, as I hope I showed above.

IBangU

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2008, 16:48:10 PM »
lincolini, I fully endorse everything you say. Id be delighted to see the starting stack increase to 4000, or hopefully even 5000.

biffa85

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2008, 16:53:47 PM »
hear, hear.  completely agree with above posts.

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tinkerman

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2008, 21:24:55 PM »

Sure thats a long day, but how often do you get an opportunity to play these events?


There aren"t many limit events in the UK, though I do run a £20 HORSE at the Loose Cannon tomorrow night (8pm start - sharp).  I try and do these every other month, though if interest was there I"d run them more regular and maybe Razz only games.

biffa85

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2008, 21:30:48 PM »
worth posting your schedule for 27-31st for ne one out early....

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M3boy

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2008, 09:10:49 AM »

lincolini, I fully endorse everything you say. Id be delighted to see the starting stack increase to 4000, or hopefully even 5000.


Pretty please?!?

monkeyman

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2008, 21:20:19 PM »

thank you so much for the address and start time. special thanks to haworthbanta as the link you gave has given me all the information that i need. it was worth taking the long shot in asking(like me taking a long shot playing in the razz event but it is worth a go) and thanks again for the info to fix my primera.
hope to see some regular faces at london sorry to hear that simon wont be playing razz but hope to see everyone from yarmouth.
good luck at the tables

Ant The Cat


After all that I"ve had a change of heart and I"m in the Razz after all meaning I"m now playing every event. See you there Ant.
Currently tearing the Ipoker anonymous tables a new one

IBangU

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #40 on: August 02, 2008, 02:31:42 AM »
Good decision mate ! See you there !

antthecat

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2008, 13:38:35 PM »
i am only playing the razz event simon, it is nice to see that you are playing the event too. i am the only one coming out of the geldeston poker crew(cos i am the only one who knows how to play more than texas holdem) so it is nice to know that there will be a few familar faces around. im off to play my mates now and clean them out lol and see everyone who is playing this event and good luck to everyone in the mean time.
p.s what is the best book to buy on razz, im re-reading super system but it seems a bit short on some information.

see you on the 28th
3rd place £25 double chance freezeout grosvenor yarmouth
4th place £35 triple chance freezeout norwich poker club
1st place £5 rebuy palace casino yarmouth
1st place £10 freezeout geldeston's spieler

IBangU

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #42 on: August 02, 2008, 16:04:48 PM »
For the real basics and some fundamental strategy there is a decent Razz section in Hellmuths book, Play Poker Like The Pros. As you would undoubtedly be beyond that, a much more advanced treatise is Sklansky on Poker which includes "Sklansky on Razz", a little tome that used to be published seperately before it went out of print. It"s extremely good, though it does assume most of your opponents will be playing sensible razz !! A much newer book has just hit the shelves, "Play Razz Poker to Win" by Mitchell Cogert, which has had mixed reviews to say the least eg :

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=186105

Hope this helps

antthecat

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2008, 15:03:01 PM »
thank you for the info on what books on razz to freshen my skills on. i am not slating the poker bible for being low on information at all, it is just that razz was not as popular as deuce to seven and ace to five draw in 1977, just seems to me that there was not many charts and percentages as there was in the draw lowball chapter. Razz is not in super system 2 which is a shame because it is quite popular nowadays. i still recommend reading the bibles(old and new testaments) once in a while to keep some ideas fresh in your head and so we(like myself) dont play in auto pilot mode.
by the way, has anyone spotted that there is two ace of diamonds on the apat"s deck, there is on my deck on the screen.
good luck everyone and see u on the 28th
3rd place £25 double chance freezeout grosvenor yarmouth
4th place £35 triple chance freezeout norwich poker club
1st place £5 rebuy palace casino yarmouth
1st place £10 freezeout geldeston's spieler

MitchellC

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Re: WCOAP - Razz
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2008, 10:15:33 AM »
Hey, IBang--thanks for mentioning my book: "Play Razz Poker to Win" by Mitchell Cogert.

As to the mixed reviews...well, you can"t make everyone happy.

However, I believe my book will help beginning and intermediate level players improve their Razz game. 

If you don"t believe me, well, PokerStars Intellipoker selected the book to educate poker players worldwide--and they happen to know Razz poker with the 2007 Razz WSOP winner on board.

Also, due to the demand, the High Stakes Bookstore in London now carries my Razz book.

Of course, I"m biased...

Good luck at the Razz event!