TT in the SB after a raise and re-raise.

[REvans84]

Hey,
I was just wondering what some of you would of done in this situation.
Home game - 5 players. Winner takes all.
It was our 2nd game and we started with 5000 chips this time around.

Level 1 (25/50) 20 Min clock. Approx 18 minutes in.
Guy UTG+1 (Cutoff) does his standard raise of 4x BB to 200. (Stack of 5000)
Guy on button re-raises to 1000. (Stack of 5000)
I"m in the SB with TT. (Stack of 5400)

Guy UTG+1 is a good player. He likes to raise alot with connecting cards.
Guy on the button is very aggressive. He 3 bets light alot! I"ve seen him 3 bet small pairs, any ace and any pocket paint/broadway cards.

Do I fold, call or shove?

[AMRN]

You can"t call - you"re out of position after the flop, and it is highly likely the flop will not be favourable to TT

So, only options are re-raise (min-raise will commit you to pot, so may as well shove the lot), or fold and find a better spot.

It comes down to how you read the guys, and if you get either of them to give you some info. If the second guy had just flat called, I would be raising for a squeeze, but think I would probably be wary of his substantion re-raise.

If your shove is called, you are probably racing at best, and possibly dominated. So it comes down to whether you believe both of the other guys will fold to a shove.

I"m folding.

[duke3016]

You can"t call - you"re out of position after the flop, and it is highly likely the flop will not be favourable to TT

So, only options are re-raise (min-raise will commit you to pot, so may as well shove the lot), or fold and find a better spot.

It comes down to how you read the guys, and if you get either of them to give you some info. If the second guy had just flat called, I would be raising for a squeeze, but think I would probably be wary of his substantion re-raise.

If your shove is called, you are probably racing at best, and possibly dominated. So it comes down to whether you believe both of the other guys will fold to a shove.

I"m folding.

Spot on that man .....-- I fold and let them fight it out

[Mikeyboy9361]

I agree entirely with the above. don"t play well against a raise, and a re raise, you have got to give credit for over cards at worst, so where does that leave you on a flop with picture cards or better.
Fold and wait for a better spot, position is king!

[TopPair2Pair]

I shouldnt really put my 2 pence in to this as its probably worth about -10 pence! However here goes - pls dont linch me! (I owe u 10p).

Probably all the other comments will say fold but I love playing from the SB as long as you pick ur plays astutely. You get to act first which isn"t textbook hold"em but if I am going to play out of position then its in the SB!!!!

Plus my Ten"s held up very favourable for me (3 times) last night in a live sng last night so I am slightly biased as it is.

If I think UTG+1 doesn"t have a re raise in him and neither of them have pocket overapairs then i"m calling with a view to negotiate the flop, and act first if the board comes ragerty.

Some will say this more tournement play as aposed to home game but its worth a crack imo, you have to get the edge somehow and at the end of the day if your strong enough to get away from it  early then your only going to be 600 off your starting 5k.

[Departed]

For the same reasons given by AMRN I would fold in this spot.
Even though UTG+1 could raise connected cards, and button 3-bets light, their range will most likely also include JJ+ (ie hands that beat you)

Also, if you were to shove, you would get called by KK and AA and most probably QQ - all hands that crush you. You might get JJ to fold - the one premium pair you beat.
<99 and virtually all connector & big card type hands that you beat will fold.

In this kind of spot I only want to be raising hands where I have either massive fold equity or hands where if I get called, I have decent equity against the callers range.

Don"t think this applies here so it"s a fold for me.

[hi_am_chris]

With blinds 25/50 seems a bit of a risk to get all in with TT this early for 5000 chips preflop, id prob fold and look for a better spot, hes put in a 5th of his stack so are you going to fold most hands your racing with and you def getting called by any hand that beats you. If you call your putting in roughly 1 5th of your stack out of position and then your guessing if the flop comes down with a picture in it to whether your ahead (thats if you were ahead pre flop).

[REvans84]

I posted this over at full contact poker forum aswel and its funny to see most of them (the few that have responded so far anyways) to be pushing.

I am definately not calling here - that is the worst choice in my opinion.

With blinds 25/50 seems a bit of a risk to get all in with TT this early for 5000 chips preflop, id prob fold and look for a better spot

Yes it is early on, but I have no leverage what so ever other than a shove if I am going to raise.

With it being winner takes all and the fact that the button is a Super LAG and 3 bets so light I decided to shove. If i didn"t have this information I think its a pretty standard fold for me.

Anyway original raiser mucked and as he did, exposed a Ten.
The button called and showed AA.
Board was QQQ 5 and the river was the case Ten (lol)

[TopPair2Pair]

sick sick sick board!

Yeah your rite the call is probably the worst choice, I"d still do it if I fancied it tho!   (possibly 20% of the time, try and get some diginity back!)

Looked for the post on Full contact couldn"t find it. Interested to see what they are saying over there.

[REvans84]

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=126195

[TopPair2Pair]

cheers

[deanp27]

i presume you are playing seriously or you wouldn"t have posted this (it is a homegame afterall and mine are usually a drinking comp rather than a poker comp)

its a clear fold here unless you have a read to the contrary - don"t stand up very well against and UTG raise and a 3bet, you can"t call 20% of your stack hopelessly out of position hoping to flop a set. Basically by shoving you are either hoping the 3bettor is on a steal and that UTG is fairly weak, or hoping for a flip at best.

all things considered its a pretty easy fold.

and for the guy that loves playing from the SB, you may have a leak in your game imo

[REvans84]

It wasn"t an UTG raise it was an UTG+1 (which is the cut off) and we were 5 handed anyways. So even if he was UTG its just like a middle position raise at a full table.

I have been talking about it alot with my mate who posted it over at Full Contact Poker and with his mate who plays mainly $5/$10 NL cash and were agreeing because it was winner takes all and the fact the button guy 3 bets light ALOT - were all siding with shoving over folding.

[Roscopiko]

Its a total no brainer fold for me.

Even though you have provided all the historic information about the players the simple fact is you are putting all your chips (100 BB) into the pot 3rd with a hand easily dominated and most of the time racing in Level 1.

Wait for better spots imo.

As quoted by Dean if you are just treating it as this a beer fueled home game and a laugh then fair enough but if you want feedback on correctness of the play it has to be fold imo.

[Jon MW]

If you weren"t so deep then I"d see the argument for shoving 10"s, but with 100 big blinds to play with I "d go with theory of letting them scrap it out.

You"re only 5 handed so if one of them gets crippled or knocked out this hand you"ve only got 3 people to beat and you"ve got lots and lots of chips to do it with and if the button won that hand after his reraise then he"s increased his stack by a significant percentage, but you"ve got plenty of time and chips to outplay him later.

I think the shove option is really ignoring how many chips you have.