Memory - Can it be fixed?

[TopPair2Pair]

I have a pretty general question to ask on this subject and looking for some insightful responses, I"ve posted this on a few forums!

Basically; how important do you feel memory is in the game of Texas Hold'em Poker??? More important then poker math? reading? positional play?

How many hands can the average player recall from their lifetime?

How much info can you realistically keep in your head about one specific player that you"ve played against and use to your advantage for future decisions?

I"ve read most of the books, tried to learn from my playing experiences but I still feel I am always going to lack that "think tank" fruitful edge that successful players always seem to be able to tap into (and utilise it to make the correct decisions).

After considering this for some time during a sleepless night, I think I"ve determined that my memory is useless and driving a lot of the pokering leakage in game (As well as thinking I can play TT in the small blind ). I often cant recall betting patterns very well, its not too bad online as the hand history is nearby but during live play this seems to be a distinct disadvantage for me.

Memory is the sort of thing people develop differently throughout their lives which gives it a very uncomparable onus in Poker. I.e. it would only be comparable if you could play with someone elses memory. Anyway, be interested to hear how good ppl think their memories are and the impact they have in their game!!?!?

TPTP

[biffa85]

The best piece of advice I was given regarding memory at the tables is to not try and remember everything at once.  Pick one thing or person to look at/memorise.

That could be trying to remember one persons betting patterns, how often they raise preflop, how often they cb, etc

Then write it down during a break or when you get home.

When you"re playing live most people play they same venues, so you get to see they same people over and over again.  So you could look to do this for the "regulars" that you see.

Then before you go for a game just read over your notes, and this will give you a head start for that following game.

Allegedly by concentrating on one person you are likely to pick up info on more than one, just because you are putting in the effort to look/concentrate.

[smileriraq]

When i sit down at a live game (rare but it does happen) I try to keep atrack on the people to my left and right  and just try and keep a rough idea of the rest ie (loose ,tight etc) obviously as the table dwindles the people will  change

A friend of mine is a very good player and noone wants to be to his right but ill do it because hes a known quantity and Ill have a better idea of his style of play as opposed to a complete newbie.

[kinboshi]

Often people confuse poor memory with poor attention - and I"m not just talking about at the poker table.

Here"s an extreme example.  You"re out on the lash, and have a few too many.  The next day you can"t quite remember everything.  Is it a memory problem, usually not.  It"s probably due to the fact that you weren"t able to process what you were seeing or hearing at the time.  Garbage in, garbage out.

On the poker table it"s a similar situation.

If you don"t "try" to remember what"s going on, observe things closely, and actively commit things to memory, you won"t remember them.

There"s so many things happening at the poker table, and that"s before you start chatting about the footy scores or the weather.  Like many other things, you need to focus on individual elements at a time, you"re not going to remember everything unless you"re especially gifted.

Taking notes also helps, not necessarily for future reference, but it"s the same as when you"re studying - if you write something down it commits it to memory more effectively than just reading it passively.

That"s probably all garbage, but I forgot what I was going to say when I started my reply...

[TopPair2Pair]

Lol.

Cudn"t sleep last night and I think I was making a moutain outta mole hill!

I am quite good at remembering the important specific details that you have to remember  - its just remembering the full specifics of particular hands in a step by step rational manner that isnt as strong as i"d like it to be.

I think i"ll get some memory trick book or something! Derren Brown reckons he can teach me how to memorise 52 cards in a row, that may assist!

[AMRN]

surely it"s more about remembering patterns, nuances, ranges, etc, rather than recalling specific cards? Obviously the big showdown hands are going to stick in memory, but they are few and far between...... I think it"s much more about remembering all the stuff that goes on above and around the table during hands, rather than the specific cards themselves.....

[TopPair2Pair]

Well like I mentioned in the start I posted this in a few forums too get as much advice as possible. (I think memory is definately an underated aspect of hold"em and you cant really find much "self help" reading material on this subject).

One guy who had a similar problem when he started out mentioned narrating every players actions in his head which helped him. This makes a lot of sense to me, I used to struggle to remember my hole cards and the first thing I do now is look at em, say the hand to myself twice and I never need to look at my cards again unless i"m going hollywood.

I am def going to try the narrating and see if I can get some memory books on visualisation to assist, and see how that develops. (Do any of you guys do this? does it really help?)

surely it"s more about remembering patterns, nuances, ranges, etc, rather than recalling specific cards?

Yep your bang on AMRN. When I said specific details, I meant like a Tight RRaiser looking at the door just after making a tournment exiting bluff. I am okay at remember cards when they placed on their backs, hole card nicknames have helped me here, its much easier to rmember "that mupped called my rr with AJAX overcards" then just AJo.

The bit that I am really struggling with is, like you say, the betting patterns/actions/individual ranges on all the streets, looking back at this info in my head and trying walk through the hand from start to finish with the extra info you have at the end of the hand. ~I want to be able to do this fluently without getting distracted by the on going play.

[Cyntaf]

Sounds to me as though your tormenting yourself. Too much self indulged pressure.
As Kind of mentioned above maybe concentrate on little and often. For input, Use whatever method you like to use, as stated repetition(make sure it"s in your head/not out loud) Try to relax and let the information flow afterwards, Your recall will improve with time. Especially if your enjoying your new found knowledge and  not beating yourself up trying too hard to remember.

I"m sure you"ve been asked say an actors name, it won"t come to you for love nor money. Later on in a relaxed state(mentally) and doing or concentrating on a new subject, Then POW!!
Like a bolt of lightning, the actor along with his/her real name appears in your otherwise busy head.

So to recap, concentrate on input, repeat and then forget. Later when info is needed, just relax, take your time and you will recall just what you need.

Hope this helps a little towards your goal for a better re-call

[duke3016]

Here"s an extreme example.  You"re out on the lash, and have a few too many.  The next day you can"t quite remember everything.  Is it a memory problem, usually not.  It"s probably due to the fact that you weren"t able to process what you were seeing or hearing at the time.  Garbage in, garbage out.

So that"s the problem -- thanks Dan  

[kinboshi]

Here"s an extreme example.  You"re out on the lash, and have a few too many.  The next day you can"t quite remember everything.  Is it a memory problem, usually not.  It"s probably due to the fact that you weren"t able to process what you were seeing or hearing at the time.  Garbage in, garbage out.

So that"s the problem -- thanks Dan  

Have we met?

[Santino67]

Sounds to me as though your tormenting yourself. Too much self indulged pressure.
As Kind of mentioned above maybe concentrate on little and often. For input, Use whatever method you like to use, as stated repetition(make sure it"s in your head/not out loud) Try to relax and let the information flow afterwards, Your recall will improve with time. Especially if your enjoying your new found knowledge and  not beating yourself up trying too hard to remember.

I"m sure you"ve been asked say an actors name, it won"t come to you for love nor money. Later on in a relaxed state(mentally) and doing or concentrating on a new subject, Then POW!!
Like a bolt of lightning, the actor along with his/her real name appears in your otherwise busy head.

So to recap, concentrate on input, repeat and then forget. Later when info is needed, just relax, take your time and you will recall just what you need.

Hope this helps a little towards your goal for a better re-call

Paul......you could"ve just said Guinness  

[Adrian747]

Hi - I think it"s a great question, "Memory - Can it be fixed?" when relating to poker. As a 747 Captain I had to remember a whole load of information - some long term, and some like the names of the other 17 crew members who I"d never met before at the start of each flight. Like most I thought I had a poor memory - but it was really quite easy to learn how to remember anything - short or long term.

A quick search on Amazon for "Books - memory" will show you dozens of titles, but I recommend a DVD course called "Quantum Memory Power" by seven times World Memory Champion D. O"Brien. Have a look at http://www.nightingaleconant.co.uk/prod_detail.aspx?product=Quantum_Memory_Power&dloc=2.

Listen to the audio sample "Mental exercise" & read the testamonials at the botom of the page. You may well be able to get this course a lot cheaper than here at Nightingale Conant, but it really can be a life changing purchase and well woth it even for £79.95.

[Cyntaf]

Yep Damien O"brien, also books by Harry Lorraine, simple peg systems etc. All good stuff, if given the chance to expand.

Not tried the audio Adrian, i"ll have a listen to that myself.. Thanks...

Hey Santino, it was because of the Guinness that the post was so long and......Mixed up a bit???

[noble1]

wowser you have picked a complicated topic , but here are my thoughts on it..

Poker memory , is it required , a conscious memory i would say is not a necessity as a lot of good players i know are either maths based , feel players or as you descibe a memory player [conscious recall].
Doyle Brunsen touches on the subject in super system but he describes his recall as a gut feeling which is intuition,he has seen that many hands his subconscious will suddenly give him that feel,that instinct as what to do next in any given hand.
I think most players experience this at some point in there poker games, you know that sudden feeling that player A is bluffing and that little voice says reraise the sucker.Or you get a vague feeling you are beat , all little things like that.
But what is it that gives you this feel, it is implicit learning.We all have it, it is how we learned to speak , our subconscious learned word order and the meaning of words, i assume you have the power of language so therfore you have the power to implicit learn.
So all you need to do his really concentrate in your poker games and allow your subconscious to take it all in and over time [some learn quicker than others as in learning to talk] you will get that intuition but theres no easy road you have to make an effort to learn by playing games [be focused]and not getting distracted and it also helps going over your poker sessions with a replayer.
Eventually you start to listen to that little voice and learn to trust it.
So practise , pay attention , learn the game of poker and all its complexity and slowly allow your intuitive knowledge base to grow.Eventually that little voice will whisper little nuggets of information to you and your game will improve..

Arthur Reber is a professor of psychology and a avid poker fan you can find books on the subject by him on cognitive psychology if you are intrested in the subject and there are scientific articles on the subject by him on the net.

Hope this helps you in some way,just dont fret about your memory [conscious] we are all different and with work you can improve at poker...

[TopPair2Pair]

Thanks Noble, I will have a read, found something already online which is quite interesting.

I have decieded to forget about memory (ha no pun intended) and concentrate on poker math for a while, its a much more tangible subject when it comes to self development.

I think I"ll tackle NLP with memory in the distant future when I have a lot more time on my hands!