AA fold or call ?

[hi_am_chris]

Im pretty sure im not folding aces pre flop, if i bust then i bust and theres always another tournament.

[coprey]

The blinds are 50-100, you have 10,000 chips (2 hour clock?) First hand

You"re dealt aces.

(a) You have a raise to 300 before you (with or without a call)
(b) You have a raise to 300 and a reraise to 800 before you

Do you call or raise?
If you raise, how much do you raise to?

You start with 20,000 in the main event don"t you?

oh yeah

It did seem a little short

Fixed it now

Fold, poker is just way too risky.

[kinboshi]

Ok so for those who would fold AA pre flop in scenario 1, I assume without an all in by the time it gets to you, you reraise 100% with this hand or are you flatting to either keep the pot small or to set mine with AA?

Moving the analysis on.

so if it isn"t raised all in before you.

What are the different scenarios for you pre flop.

Not just scenario 1, when would you raise and when would you call - what are your aims with this hand?

(first hand so completely unknown how your opponents will play)

Early on in a deep-stack event, I think I might be looking to re-raise all-in with AA.  There are enough people who"ll call with KK, QQ and even far worse hands.

It didn"t used to be my thinking, but after a number of these threads and discussions with players - I think I"m liking this line now.

[bigredders]

just wondering..to the people who are going along the lines of folding..is that due to past(bad) experiences as well as the debate of positive/negative ev.

just that going into the irish national i had a lot of bad beats online, therefore found myself, especially in the middle part of the tournament fastplaying big hands.

so maybe form influences all these decisions

[Maxriddles]

Scenario 1 and 2 are definite calls for me, scenario 3 is a fold as I don"t fancy risking a deepstack tournament on a coin flip at an early stage.

[HaworthBantam]

Scenario 1 and 2 are definite calls for me, scenario 3 is a fold as I don"t fancy risking a deepstack tournament on a coin flip at an early stage.

My thoughts as well - the more opponents you"re up against, the more the percentages go down....

[hi_am_chris]

but senario 3 is only a coinflip for u, u still have the best hand by quite some way but in any case senario 3 is very unlikely to play out. This early on in the tournament and in pretty much any tourny your not going to get 3 other people shoving in with suited connectors. Whatever they have your still going to have 50 percent equity in a pot your gettin 4 to 1 odds to call or whatever? how can you fold?

[kinboshi]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.

You have AA on the button and are delighted, and a player in early position who has you covered goes all-in.

You surely call, don"t you?  Even though you have no fold equity and if you lose, you"re out.  What about if Billy Big Stack is sitting in the BB, and he has both of you covered easily and does like a good call...

[AMRN]

only two occasions when I would ever fold AA preflop...

1. early in deepstack tourney with 2 all ins ahead of me.

2. when big stack near the bubble in a satellite

[HaworthBantam]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.

You have AA on the button and are delighted, and a player in early position who has you covered goes all-in.

You surely call, don"t you?

Definitely I call. At that point I"d call if two or more players had gone all in.

My point is, why risk your tournament life so early in a tourney against 2 other players on what"s little more than a coin flip ? Fine for all these pros that either can afford to go off and enter another tournie or, probably more accurately, have their sponsors pay their entry in another tournie, but for the mere mortals amongst us I"d want more play out of my entry fee.

[Jon MW]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.
...

That"s the difference.

If you can lose 200 big blinds preflop whilst only holding one pair then I"m folding*




*there are always exceptions

[kinboshi]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.

You have AA on the button and are delighted, and a player in early position who has you covered goes all-in.

You surely call, don"t you?

Definitely I call. At that point I"d call if two or more players had gone all in.

My point is, why risk your tournament life so early in a tourney against 2 other players on what"s little more than a coin flip ? Fine for all these pros that either can afford to go off and enter another tournie or, probably more accurately, have their sponsors pay their entry in another tournie, but for the mere mortals amongst us I"d want more play out of my entry fee.

So effectively you"re playing scared?

[kinboshi]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.
...

That"s the difference.

If you can lose 200 big blinds preflop whilst only holding one pair then I"m folding*




*there are always exceptions

The fact you"re short should make you more likely to play them, as you"re unlikely to find yourself in a better situation.

OK - let"s assume you have an average stack, or a larger than average stack.  Does that affect your decision?

[HaworthBantam]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.

You have AA on the button and are delighted, and a player in early position who has you covered goes all-in.

You surely call, don"t you?

Definitely I call. At that point I"d call if two or more players had gone all in.

My point is, why risk your tournament life so early in a tourney against 2 other players on what"s little more than a coin flip ? Fine for all these pros that either can afford to go off and enter another tournie or, probably more accurately, have their sponsors pay their entry in another tournie, but for the mere mortals amongst us I"d want more play out of my entry fee.

So effectively you"re playing scared?

Not so sure I"m playing scared, but I"d prefer to play poker than one hand of bingo.

If I was at a table full of poker pros I might well call in scenario C, as I wouldn"t be as confident about playing poker with them and being competitive. If I win then I"ve got a buffer. From my point of view, calling in scenario C is playing scared.

[Jon MW]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.
...

That"s the difference.

If you can lose 200 big blinds preflop whilst only holding one pair then I"m folding*




*there are always exceptions

The fact you"re short should make you more likely to play them, as you"re unlikely to find yourself in a better situation.

OK - let"s assume you have an average stack, or a larger than average stack.  Does that affect your decision?

Exactly - if I"m short stacked, obviously I"m not folding.

But if I have the average or larger than average stack (in a deep stacked tournament) then generally I"m happy to fold to another deep stacked player.

But on the bubble then I"m looking at a lot more factors.
My stack, their stack, the average stack, the clock etc.

I would also take into account the money - 99% of all tournaments, this will have a 0.001% influence on the outcome. But if I"ve freerolled into the WSOP Main Event then I"d be more keen than normal to not go out on the bubble.

NB: I also agree with Haworth"s point that shoving preflop and hoping it holds up isn"t what I"d enter any tournament for.