Author Topic: For Your Amusement  (Read 24934 times)

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Jon MW

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For Your Amusement
« on: October 05, 2008, 14:00:10 PM »
I may not have played this technically correct  ;D

(On the bubble)

PokerStars Game  $1.00+$0.10 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) ante:25

Seat 1: daJoker111 (5620 in chips)
Seat 2: Jemballa (14860 in chips)
Seat 3: Zoogin99 (6075 in chips) Button
Seat 5: chrs1888 (8200 in chips)
Seat 6: Jon MW (6869 in chips)
Seat 7: DrTerminator (11112 in chips)
Seat 8: minetje (4675 in chips)
Seat 9: GameHog111 (4849 in chips)

[Antes posted]
chrs1888: posts small blind 125
Jon MW: posts big blind 250

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jon MW [ 6d  :2c:]
DrTerminator: calls 250
[everybody else folds]
chrs1888: calls 125
Jon MW: checks

*** FLOP *** [ :3c:  :2h:  th]
chrs1888: bets 250
Jon MW: calls 250
DrTerminator: calls 250

*** TURN *** [ :3c:  :2h:  th] [ ad1]
chrs1888: checks
Jon MW: bets 750
DrTerminator: folds
chrs1888: raises 750 to 1500
Jon MW: calls 750

*** RIVER *** [ :3c:  :2h:  th] [ :2d:]
chrs1888: bets 1000
Jon MW: raises 3844 to 4844 and is all-in
chrs1888: calls 3844

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Jon MW: shows [ 6d  :2c:] (three of a kind, Deuces)
chrs1888: shows [ ac  :3d:] (two pair, Aces and Threes)
Jon MW collected 14388 from pot

:D
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

Chipaccrual

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2008, 14:03:58 PM »
Errrrrrrr...............

NH ?

TopPair2Pair

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2008, 14:07:45 PM »
Genius!!!

Love the turn bet and call.
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RioRodent

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2008, 15:30:22 PM »
My Mum always said, "If you can"t say something nice, don"t say anything at all."

I"m saying nothing!  ???

If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.

TopPair2Pair

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2008, 16:23:18 PM »

My Mum always said, "If you can"t say something nice, don"t say anything at all."

I"m saying nothing!  ???




OR you could say "TRIPS Baaaaaby..." in a very dishonarable manner!
Toppietwo - "Just like it says on the tin"

Jon MW

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2008, 17:49:14 PM »
I"ve just finished 4th in that tournament

Some luckbox just outdrew me to knock me out  :"(
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

Swinebag

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2008, 21:06:04 PM »
The dreaded min chk raise on the turn is so ...yuk!! you had to call it.

Great play john, the guy got a thoroughly deserved felting :D
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Rob, you are a genius.
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You are a genius Rob  :D

noble1

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 05:15:53 AM »
what was your plan for the river if a heart or a 2 didnt come ??
do you think your out of position play will catch on ??
what hands did you put your opponent on ?
did the paired board not concern you at all on the river ??

overall mark for the played hand - 1 out of 10
you get a mark of 1 because you managed to look just as bad as your opponent..

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D     :D :D :D :D :D :D

Jon MW

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 09:10:07 AM »

what was your plan for the river if a heart or a 2 didnt come ??
do you think your out of position play will catch on ??
what hands did you put your opponent on ?
did the paired board not concern you at all on the river ??

overall mark for the played hand - 1 out of 10
you get a mark of 1 because you managed to look just as bad as your opponent..

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D     :D :D :D :D :D :D


lol - at least somebody bothered to question "what was I thinking?".

I"ll get back to this at lunch. :)
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

Jon MW

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 12:45:42 PM »
i. The showdown did actually make me lol - I thought the hand might amuse other people as well, but as you"ve asked...

ii. I did make a mistake, I don"t  mind admitting that.
This was a tight table, especially as it had got closer to the bubble.
So it was relatively straightforward to put people on hands.
Nobody was desperately short stacked - in the tournament as a whole there were a number of micro-stacks, which meant that barring any accident everybody on this table should make it through the bubble.

iii. The other players in the hand (and most of the rest on the table) were raising preflop with premium hands, and limping with small pairs and broadway cards for example.

The mistake I made was not realising that the SB"s range was going to be slightly wider because he had already put the SB in.

iv. The SB min bet on the flop made me narrow his range to 2 broadway cards (inc a high ace), or a flush draw - ditto with the EP call. If either of them had a 10 or a pocket pair they would have bet more, and as I mentioned above - I didn"t think either of them would be playing the hand with a rag card.

v. The SB check on the turn made me put him on a draw or 2 picture cards, this was where I thought a stab at the pot would either give me the pot (or if the EP bettor reraised for example - and he would have reraised large if he"d had the ace - I could fold with plenty enough chips left).

vi. The SB check raise made me think {adjective deleted}, but it meant he had the high ace.

But:

This left me with 750 to bet into a 3950 pot (19%)
That left me with approximately 9 outs needed to call him.
11 hearts, 2 6"s and a 2 were the outs I thought I had - so this was easily enough to call (and there were enough to call even if I"d known he had 2 pair)

vii. I would have lost another 1000 chips if a 6 had come on the end (I wouldn"t have re raised)

viii. If this had happened or if none of my outs came on the river and I"d folded (or if I"d been reraised large on the turn and folded) I"d have still had enough chips to make it past the bubble - so the worst case scenario meant that I still would have cashed.

But it would still have left me enough chips to cause serious damage if anybody called my subsequent all ins, which on a generally tight table meant that I still would have had the opportunity to work myself back into it.

Do I get an extra point for at least having a plan? :D
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

noble1

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2008, 01:46:47 AM »
errr no   ;D

just some quick points -
why was it so difficult to not put him on a range like these on the turn -  [equity on turn versus these]
45o - 0%
45h - 0%
Axo - 11.36%
Axh - 9.09%
A3h - 4.55%
A3o - 4.55%
33 - 0%
TT - 0%
even A2o - 0%
Txo - 11%

reasonable range for what he is check raising on the turn , although a $1 tourny even if the fruit loop was betting 77 88 etc u are still in bad shape and i think with hindsight you are trying to justify the play.

the equity you had on the turn was - 3950/750=5.26  so 1/6.26= 15.97% equity not 19,so even against Axo your call was questionable and also giving villian the said hand range the reraise you make on the river is imo BAD

if i were to play your hand at all with your observations of the table dynamics , why not raise pre-flop 4to5bb and punish the limpers [easy 375 chips]  

Sir u are more leaky than a leaky full of holes thingy me a jig
minus 0.5 points for poor maths and hand reading/board analysis and a black star..

total points - 1/2 out of ten   [jon mw shows promise but needs to apply himself more]

Jon MW

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2008, 09:34:24 AM »

...
45o - 0%            he would have folded preflop
45h - 0%            he would have folded preflop
Axo - 11.36%      Already explained that I didn"t take into account that he could be playing A rag from the blinds Even though he wouldn"t be from any other position. I thought he had a high ace
Axh - 9.09%       as above
A3h - 4.55%       as above
A3o - 4.55%       as above
33 - 0%             If he"d flopped a set of 3"s or 2"s and was slow playing it then good luck to him
TT - 0%             He would have raised pre flop
even A2o - 0%    As above with the ace rag
Txo - 11%          he would have bet more than the minimum on the flop, people were being very good at protecting their made hands. They weren"t generally playing badly on this table - they were playing tight, and they were playing it well.

...

if i were to play your hand at all with your observations of the table dynamics , why not raise pre-flop 4to5bb and punish the limpers [easy 375 chips]  
I was mainly doing things like that pre flop if I had a reasonable hand to semi bluff with (like ace rag for instance). In this instance the time to take it down safely would have been to raise to 750 on the flop (for much the same reasoning that I bet it on the turn) - but I thought there were plenty of opportunity here for me to either get away from the hand without betting too much, or to win a bigger pot. (I made a mistake - and that"s how I should have played it without making a mistake)
...


« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 09:59:53 AM by Jon MW »
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

Jon MW

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2008, 09:50:54 AM »

...
the equity you had on the turn was - 3950/750=5.26  so 1/6.26= 15.97% equity
...


I was just looking at pot odds, I"m not so big on equity calculations.

What did you do here - particularly where does the 6.26 come from?
Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - Razz 2007 Champion
2007 WSOP Razz 13/341

Swinebag

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2008, 11:55:26 AM »


...
the equity you had on the turn was - 3950/750=5.26  so 1/6.26= 15.97% equity
...


I was just looking at pot odds, I"m not so big on equity calculations.

What did you do here - particularly where does the 6.26 come from?


1+5.26?

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Rob, you are a genius.
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You are a genius Rob  :D

noble1

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Re: For Your Amusement
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2008, 12:45:19 PM »


...
the equity you had on the turn was - 3950/750=5.26  so 1/6.26= 15.97% equity
...


I was just looking at pot odds, I"m not so big on equity calculations.

What did you do here - particularly where does the 6.26 come from?


right 1st where did you get 19% from ? even working it out the rough way the 4x and 2x rule  on the turn 62o with 5 outs - 5x2=10% chance to improve thats 9to1

equity - 6.26 comes from the 5.26 to 1 odds u were getting on the turn , u add 5.26 to the 1 = 6.26 then to work out your equity you divide 1 by the 6.26 which equals 15.97%
when you pokerstove villians range you are way behind this even to TJ T9 TQ etc

another way which a lot use is they add the pot size [3950] to the call [750] which would equal 4700 using this figure you then divide the call [750] by 4700 and times 100 which equals 15.957%       aha i hear u cry its not the same as the way u did it above , well try dividing 1 by 6.266 times 100 and u will get 15.95%

i just think my way is quicker when online with a calculator at hand , work out the odds and the divide it into 1   easy peezy

eg - pot size 7400 ,, 4200 to call    1.76 to 1     1 divided by 2.76 times 100 equals 36.23% equity   when you pokerstove lots of different hand ranges u get to know how hands stack up against each other pre-flop and post and u will pick up quickly when to fold and call mathematically correctly  , most top mtt players now know hand ranges and equity and use it quite effectively

i"ve been going through a lot of my friends mtt hand histories recently who has just started playing at poker and he plays the 1 and 2$ mtts on stars, one thing i have noticed going through them is the weak play and calling light on the river , no surprises there ,, but i do find it intresting how u discount all those hands for some1 in the small blind when it only costs them 125 chips to see a flop with a 8000+ chip stack,, i agree he played his 2 pair far to passive but looking at his bet pattern, weak lead flop check raise turn [ok bad raise but it is a bad player] those hands i give him are quite reasonable for his position in the hand and how quite a lot of players at this level play them.
The amount of histories i"ve been through and seen weak bet flop , turn , and river with top pair weak kicker they might as well telegraph there hand to everyone . The total disregard to position when playing there hands , i could go on and on with the mistakes i keep seeing , unbelievable really when you consider the amount of information out there for poker...