Whats your line here?

[Roscopiko]

Ok folks help put my mind at rest here with the following hand.

Ladbrokes Irish Festival - 167 players remaining 83 paid.

Stack 60k blinds 1.5k/3k 300 ante

3rd to act raises to 9k (52k behind) folded to me in SB with JJ.

Been on this table only about 40 mins and villain has opened lots of pots with 3x raise and folded to reraises but not a single showdown of a hand he"s played.

BB has ~150k and played plenty and squeezed a few times.

What do you do here and why?

[TopPair2Pair]

is this live?

[Roscopiko]

Yes live game, also 1 hr blinds if that changes you mind any

[Swinebag]

shove. You have < 10 orbits and are ahead of his range.

[REvans84]

Standard shove.

[Chipaccrual]

Shhhhhhhhoooooooooooooooooooooovvve.

But I"m tight as, so what do I know.  

[Roscopiko]

Wow, all shoving here, i feel much better now.

I shoved to isolate the villain and reasoned that a reasonable reraise would commit me to the pot anyway.

He took an age to decide and called for his tournament with AQ.  After a scary 234 rainbow flop, of course the A came on the turn and I was out. 

Reason I posted it was that since then I think I"ve maybe misplayed it and could have either raise/fold to a shove and play with 10bb or if he calls shove on any non A board and he probably folds in this case.

Did I really need to risk a reasonable stack in this spot with JJ out of position?

[Jon MW]

If the big blind had squeezed a few times I would have considered a stop and go.

(a) if you flat call and the BB squeezes you can reraise all in (I probably would have called if the AQ had shoved before you)
(b) if the big blind doesn"t squeeze then I"d shove on the flop as long as there were at most one overcard on there (it probably should be a shove whatever the flop is, but that"s my idea of caution).

I think the stop and go is underused - most people seem to opt for the all in preflop instead.

[TopPair2Pair]

If the big blind had squeezed a few times I would have considered a stop and go.

(a) if you flat call and the BB squeezes you can reraise all in (I probably would have called if the AQ had shoved before you)
(b) if the big blind doesn"t squeeze then I"d shove on the flop as long as there were at most one overcard on there (it probably should be a shove whatever the flop is, but that"s my idea of caution).

I think the stop and go is underused - most people seem to opt for the all in preflop instead.

Agreed, and I personally love the "stop and go" in the SB as your first to act post flop. Some will disagree but I ration this play to make it more effective especially at this stage in a tournemnt.

Also if the BB tries a squeeze you"ll be last to act preflop which adds value to this particlur scenario.

Are you still calling if the BB shoves and open raiser calls?

I think the stop and go is underused

I think your right regarding the general use of it but those that do utilise it can be known to overuse it. I would only consider it approx 5-10% of the time looking for spots like these to make it most effective.

[kinboshi]

[Jon MW]

Shove for me.  Especially with your stack size (and your opponents" stacks).

Stop and go works as well possibly. But the shove is the better option for me with JJ.  Just under 70% of the time there"s going to be an overcard on the board - and against two opponents you"re likely to be behind and potentially "going" when you need to be "stopping".

Where"d you get the 70% from?

[Swinebag]

"stop and go" from SB is a bit of an overused play IMO (from the harrington books) A lot of short stacks that use it are getting looked up more and more these days. Harrington recommends using it as a way to defend your blinds with a weak holding, against a late position or serial raiser.

With these blinds you want a double up here with JJ

The way I see it, when you "stop and go" here, you are minimising your win when you are ahead and losing the lot when you are behind

In this case, you are ahead of this players range so stick em in. Save the caution for the deeper stacks....

.....and more importantly save the "stop and go" for a worse hand in a similar spot.

[Swinebag]

Shove for me.  Especially with your stack size (and your opponents" stacks).

Stop and go works as well possibly. But the shove is the better option for me with JJ.  Just under 70% of the time there"s going to be an overcard on the board - and against two opponents you"re likely to be behind and potentially "going" when you need to be "stopping".

Where"d you get the 70% from?

I thought it was around 50%

[HaworthBantam]

22 - 100%
33 - 99%
44 - 99%
55 - 98%
66 - 96%
77 - 92%
88 - 97%
99 - 80%
TT - 70%
JJ  - 57%
QQ - 41%
KK - 27%
AA - 0%

For the mathematicians.... http://www.math.sfu.ca/~alspach/comp34/

[Jon MW]

"stop and go" from SB is a bit of an overused play IMO ...

Funny you should say that, as I don"t really see it being used that much (i.e. I don"t often see a blind call and shove on the flop).

Personally I think you have enough chips to not need the double up, the extra chips you get if this works is enough to give you some opportunity for further blind and ante stealing.

However this scenario in particular though I firstly want a squeeze from the big blind to then get all my chips in and hope for more than a double up.

Although I might have worded it back to front, the stop and go is my back up in case I don"t get the squeeze play.

I would expect the shove post flop to get respect because I don"t see stop and go"s that much.  But if it was a rag board and they thought I had nothing, I"m in good shape. If it has a single high card then they are more likely to have missed than hit. If there was more than one - I"d be a bit stuck (gloss over that quickly).

In summary: I think this scenario in particular would be a smooth call - with plenty of opportunities to gain a fair amount of chips.