yes sometimes in mtts you ignore maths,the long term variance view you get in cash games is ok you can replenish your stack whenever you like.
In a mtt with a fast structure it is a crap shoot and a lot of the skill in poker is taken away,you are forced to make stands with marginal holdings and maths and equity play a part.
In slow deep structures,if you are skillful there is no need to take small even shot edges early on,you have time to pick your spots and play poker.Alas there are still people who have no clue how to adjust to a slower structure and they still employ speed play techniques , the concept of survival escapes them,these players are usually lacking in the poker skills compartment and use ""mathematical edges"" as an excuse for shoving in situations that if they had any player or hand reading ability they would be able to get away from..
In todays poker world poker players are bombarded with books about the mathematics and how ""important"" it is , M zones ,pot odds, equity,implied odds or fold equity they are only a small part of your poker skills,the important skills like patience , people/hand reading and the psychological aspect are hardly touched upon.
As patience factors in mtts get higher the skill levels rise because players have more time to be selective in the pots they enter and to be flexible about the way they choose to play their hands,or am i wrong in thinking that
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There is no need to pokerstove , a set versus two opponents 1 [loose] on top pair,2 pair,poss-99,poss flush draw Ax, the other [young lad] on a flush draw with a piece of sorts of the flop,99 not discounted is on average around %50 at best with 2 cards to come. is this a huge edge? it is if you think your opponents are good enough to fold or at least one of them,then your edge is %70 + , but the way the action unfolded in Kinboshis situation suggested they were not going to fold on the flop,but i would of been interested if young lad had missed his club on the turn if he would of called all his stack then [if he were to check turn then i would discount 99 from his range],so with the point of view of calling the flop and re-evaluating the turn, if there is no club then shove to isolate the loose player is the optimum play , 4 times out of 5 it may well work !!!! the 1 time it does not and the club comes you survive with 56bb and a good chance to build back up,young donkey is still at the table
theres hope yet..
If young lad calls our shove on the turn he is getting odds of 3 to 1 hmmm but now we have an big edge !!!
So which way has the best edge,shove flop or shove turn if no club??
remember we had no real read on young lad except that he said himself that he was good
with it being so early in the mtt , no antes in play yet and a good structure time wise and opponent stacks at this stage mostly being of a similar size for me i would be comfortable in finding other situations to gain chips.
Some players are only comfortable when they amass large stacks early [thats ok,they play to there style] but i am ok short, medium or large stacked,i have had plenty of practice at all 3..I just feel that to be consistent in mtts you need a good all round game and it would not feel right to me to tell everyone to shove bottom set on a flop OOP with little info,when its something i would not do myself.I prefer to get my chips in on the turn and river when i have more info to work on.
Each to there own as they say Eck
edit - done pokerstove out of interest ,
board -
Kinboshi - 3d3h - 54.643%
loose guy - 99,AKs,KJs+,K9s,AKo,KJo+,K9o - 12.729%
young lad - 99,AKs,KQs,JTs - 32.628%
turn with club - take away 99 from young lads range and put him on flush
board -
Kinboshi - 3d3h - 17.778%
loose guy - 99,AKs,KJs+,K9s,AKo,KJo+,K9o - 11.270%
young lad - JcTc - 70.952%
turn with no club , discount 99 from YL range if he checks again put him on FD
board -
Kinboshi - 3d3h - 70.159%
loose guy - 99,AKs,KJs+,K9s,AKo,KJo+,K9o - 7.460%
young lad - JcTc - 22.381% best flush draw hand on this board if it is KQcc or ATcc
then his percentages are 18% and 16% with these type of draw hands and 3d3h increases to around 76%