can someone please tell me if I did the right thing or not?

[GrazB]

Hello poker people

So, I was playing in the 250k gtd on pokerheaven last night, 320 euro buyin which is way above what I would normally pay, due to being a tightwad and after about  1 hour of play or thereabouts this happened :

The blinds are 75 150 and I"m in mid-position with  :as: qh . the guy to my right limps and I raise to 450, the sb calls as does the original limper, everyone else folds. The flop comes  ac  tc   , sb checks as does limperman, I bet out for 900 chips, about 1/3 of my remaining stack and the sb goes allin as does the limper, I think long and hard before folding, sb flips over     and the limper has a flush draw with    jc.

Turn and river brings two queens and the sb with A5 scoops a big pot. I would have had a full house of course Was this a bad fold by me? It was for all my chips and I didn"t really have a good read on either player at that point.

I am really interested to know peoples opinions on this hand if possible.

Thanks in advance.

Graz

[Jon MW]

How much were the small blind and limper all in for?

[George2Loose]

Yeh stack sizes would be useful. You can easily put one of them on a draw so it"s close. If you"ve put that much of your stack in tho I"d lean toward a call.

For future ref raise more pre flop. If you"re first in then 3* is fine however when you get a limper or two you should consider 4-5* it otherwise you"re giving everyone far too good a price to call

[GrazB]

thanks for the replies so far guys, all 3 of us had roughly the same amount of chips, somewhere in the region of 3k each before the hand started, I realise the preflop raise was maybe a bit on the small side but I"ve been burnt so may times with AQ I didn"t want to commit too much preflop, had the sb or limper bet out I woulda probably pushed allin after the flop but with them both checking then after I had obv showed strength and had played a very tight game up until that point I figured I was either up against a set or 2 pair with both of them pushing allin after checking the flop to me. I figured if I folded I could still play my way back into the tournament rather than calling off my whole stack with just top pair. The sb who called my raise out of position with A5 turned out to be a complete fish and I knocked him out of the tournament later on just before we reached the money. If I had known how bad he was I would have called with my AQ regardless of the limpers allin, I think

[kinboshi]

[Jon MW]

I don"t think the pf raise was too bad because it gives you the lead in the hand.

If you bet more then I don"t think anybody there would fold to a 4x or 5x bet when they won"t fold to a 3x one. All it would would do would be to inflate the pot size, so you"d either have to hit the flop or you"d have to make some kind of bluff to win it - the first being unlikely the second being a lot of fun not ideal.

I think shoving on the flop would have been a good idea, the most likely worst case scenario would be that you"d win the pot as it stood.

The pf limper could have 6"s, either of them could have A 10, and either of them of them could aces or tens. But it"s not likely.

So either they both have nothing and you"re not likely to achieve anything much if they stay in the hand, or they"ve hit a little bit and they might be stupid enough to donk the rest of their chips away.

I"d say that either one of the flush draw or Ace rag might have called an all in shove - and possibly both.

As played you should have called the 2 all ins - you"re not likely to be drawing dead, you"re not left with much if you fold, and you get a huge pot and a chance to really push on if you win.

[George2Loose]

Yes u have the lead in the hand but if you 3* consistently you constantly playing multi way pots- lead or no lead., AQ plays better heads up than multi way-

Raise more pre- defines peoples ranges better.

[Jon MW]

Yes u have the lead in the hand but if you 3* consistently you constantly playing multi way pots- lead or no lead., AQ plays better heads up than multi way-

Raise more pre- defines peoples ranges better.

I"m not against varying your preflop raises, but in this instance (and a lot of instances) it won"t make people fold a mediocre hand, so all it does is give them a bigger pot to win if they happen to hit.

[George2Loose]

I think if you consistenly 3* instead of 4* or 5* you"ll be playing a lot more multi way pots.

In this instance it was just 3 handed but the OP could have easily faced a 5 or 6 way pot by 3*ing.

Even 4*ing can thin the field.

Question to OP: How many times are you c-betting here when u miss?

[GrazB]

Many many thanks again for the great replies folks, I"ll try and answer the questions you posed in the best way I can.

I figured a 2/3 size of the pot would take the pot down right there which was what I was wanting to do, the pot was big enough and although I had top pair I cant give anyone the right odds to call with a draw and after playing online for long enough I know how easy it can be to get sucked out on and the bet was purely designed to finish it right there. If I had bet less I would have looked weak and if I had then been re-raised I wouldn"t really have known where I was. This was a big buyin for me so maybe I just over-estimated the level I was playing against and perhaps this also contributed to the fold. With 2 guys pushing allin after checking my top pair just didn"t look as strong anymore. The bet therefore also gave me, although negligible I agree, some wiggle room to get out of the hand and take my chance later on with an allin move to try and double back up again.

The QQ on turn and river although giving me the full house was actually not needed anyway because if I could have seen the others players cards I am pushing allin with my AQ after the flop.

If I had missed the flop and the other 2 players had both checked to me I would probably have bet the same amount and tried to take the pot down. I dont see the need to push allin here as the 900 bet should surely do the trick the same way as an allin bet would have, I think anyway.

Remember we were only an hour into the tournament and 3* was taking down most pots uncontested at this point as the table was playing very, very tight, hence the fold after the 2 allins.

To conclude the story , I was left in a bad position with only 1700 chips left and somewhere in the region of 500 players remaining but I did manage to double back up about 10 mins later and then played some good stuff to go from almost last in the tourney to top 20 within an hour and I eventually, after a further 4 hours of play,  went out in 65th place and won myself 750 euro which pleased the wife no end

I went out when my  ac tc lost to  ks in a sb bb confrontation.

Incidentally the AQ in question proved to be the 2nd best hand I had all night, only bettered by picking up QQ which resulted in picking up solely the blinds.

I hope this has been readable for you all and I await more comments if possible.

[GrazB]

Am I alone in thinking that the sb call out of position with A5o was pretty poor play regardless of the 3* bet or not?

[Mikeyboy9361]

Well done on your come back a nice ROI. I never play that higher buy in, and never will until I win some major tourney some where, maybe the GUKPT when I win my seat via an APAT event
The call by the small blind was pretty loose, I certainly wouldn"t be calling in that spot.

[TopPair2Pair]

Am I alone in thinking that the sb call out of position with A5o was pretty poor play regardless of the 3* bet or not?

its was weak and should go in some notes. blatent disregard for gap concept = fish. If you folded and he doubled through, the better players at the table (ideally seasted to A5 next right) are going to be calling him lighter and we want to be involved with that action getting double our money when better player goes over the top of A5 and we go all in! you feeling that, eh?  

Regarding AQo, it is a toughie, generally if you dont want action yeah 5xBB raise is apporpriate but online... A5 fish still calls and recalls on flop. live everyone craps emself and folds.

If we are on a looose table i wouldn"t be affraid to scrap AQ early on and increase my Ax holding in CO/MP looking to hit a board hard with 2 pair and stakcing off against weak opponent with top pair and controlling pots against the stronger ones.

[Santino67]

With less than 3k left, 1.5k in pot and 2 checks I"d have shoved or checked flop with those 2 clubs out there. I believe the 2/3 pot bet only left you 12bb"s and then vulnerable to a re-raise (if the other 2 stacks were bigger than yours). Chances are if you"d shoved at that point they"d have both folded. 900 into the 1500 pot is giving the flush draw just under 3 to 1 and with turn and river to come is too tempting imo.

Absolutely agree that the A5 call is a complete shocker though (but stack sizes would still be worth knowing). Nice recovery as well and cashing actually means you made the right decision at that point.