Difference in standard

[monkeyman]

Just wondering what everyone else"s thoughts were on the possibilities of someone graduating from an APAT live event to winning a professional tournament. Perhaps anyone who has played in an EPT/WSOP event could give us their thoughts on differences in standards/playing styles  

[M3boy]

I think you will find that the "A" in APAT stands for AMATEUR.

The standard of the play is therefore no different to the "Amateurs" playing in EPT/WSOP events.

To succeed in one of these events, you have to change YOUR style to combat it (and of course have the luck you need at the right time as you do in ANY tourney).

[jjandellis]

I will go with M3Boy on this one.

The EPT/WPT is filled with alot of amatuers, (no they aren"t all THAT good) but is also well stocked with professionals. This is THEIR bread and butter. They play the tourneys week in/week out. This means that they are used to the "big stage" and are probably less intimidated by the consequences of being knocked out (ie it won"t drastically effect their roll). But more importantly, as M3 Boy quoted, I believe that they have learnt to adapt their game styles so that they can cope with the differing styles they encounter.

I have said it before, but I was absolutely in awe of Henning Gransted at the EPT. His reads, lack of tells and ability to change gear were really impressive. I believe to get that good you need to be on the circuit week in week out.

I don"t beleive its entirely impossible to win one of these as an amatuer - just look at the number of online qualifiers that hvae won them. But if you ever get there you need to forget the big occasion and play your "A game". But even that could be tricky. I sincerely beleive that you need to learn a few different styles to truely be prepared for one of the big tourneys.

I"ve actually spent a few months denting my bankroll trying and trying to play different styles in tourneys. I"ve now started to blend them and the results really are starting to pay dividends live (though I blew it this weekend!!!). But all that change has been brought about from what I saw in Dortmund, where I realised that if I were to progress then a change would be needed. I think its been worth it and a much better player than even a few months ago. Time will tell...

On the subject of tourneys, I think that the GUKPT tie up is a more natural step for an APAT player. You get to play in your own country against (mostly) Brit players. Its not as far removed from the comfort zone as playing in a foreign city, with crazy foreign players.

Oh and of course you need to Poker God to be on your side. So next time an APAT player goes into the EPT we all need to hold a vigil to Poker God and offer up a sacrifice!!!!

That duck springs to mind Phil ;-)

[kinboshi]

What you said about them not being concerned about being knocked out definitely gives the pros the edge.  If the next big tournament is in a week or so, they"re more willing to race early to try and double-up.  Especially true if they are paid into the events.

I didn"t play "scared", but I was concious that it was a "one off" for me to play in an EPT, and that I didn"t want to do anything stupid early doors.

[UKChamp]

What you said about them not being concerned about being knocked out definitely gives the pros the edge.  If the next big tournament is in a week or so, they"re more willing to race early to try and double-up.  Especially true if they are paid into the events.

I didn"t play "scared", but I was concious that it was a "one off" for me to play in an EPT, and that I didn"t want to do anything stupid early doors.

Agreed

A certain fearlessness takes time to develop

[UKChamp]

The key point here I think is not the perceived deficit in standard between pro circuit and APAT events but the standard of APAT event play in isolation.  Most players are new(ish) to the game and as such I expect the quality of play to evolve.

I know myself my game is far beyond that of last year. To the point where I cringe at some of the memories!

Should keep people on there toes too, unlike a pro circuit I guess where the big guys have played each other for years. I may observe someone playing a specific way in one event and 12 months later come accross them again to find what is affectivley to all intents a different player.

All in all should be fun though!!

[George2Loose]

The more I play- the more convinced I am playing a LAG style is the way to go these days early in tourneys. Esp. with the size of fields you need chips to get chips. I tended to play TAG and ended up taking races for my tourney life when reshoving with a medium stack or pushing all in whereas if u manage to get chips early u can avoid races or if you take them, they dent your stack slightly not cripple you.

Saying that- it"s very risky early doors as my 120th place in Birmingham is proves *bows head in shame*

[kinboshi]

You"ve made up for that early exit.  At one stage I thought you might go on to win at the weekend.  That would have had a nice symmetry about it .

Playing LAG early doors does help you to accumulate chips - but it doesn"t guarantee anything.  Although you might not be racing for your tournament life in the middle stages, you will often be racing against others who can decimate the large stack you"ve built up.

It"s certainly how many of the pros play (and many at that APAT events) - LAG it up early, get a big stack and batter the others with it.  If they bust out, so be it.  They look forward to the next one.

The key is being able to mix up your game, and also playing taking into account the others at the table.

[duke3016]

LAG or TAG is it all about timing ?

Don"t know but I think there was a quote in the Cincinnati Kid "That"s what it"s all about, isn"t it? Making the wrong move at the right time"

[JayCbee]

Duke is DAG every Wednesday.  Thats Drunk Aggressive....  

[thacker]

imo there were at least 4 guys on that final table that can do well in big events.

[Ironside]

playing a LAG style early without putting your comp at risk works for me and moving to TAG would be best once you have gotten your chips but moving to TAP like i did at the weekend is stupid now someone lend me a whip so i can beat it out of myself

[jon_garrett]

I agree with Scott. I think there are several players who can go on to better things. For myself I plan to find out next year as I"m planning on tackling the WSOP and playing plenty of events there as well as trying some closer to home. Time will tell. Good luck to all who try.

[M3boy]

Whatever style you have (be it LAG or TAG) you just HAVE to have the ability to change your game based on the players at the table, you must also be able to change gears (up AND down) at the right time.

Playing live, reading people is a must - all the top players can do this with a very high %age. This cannot be taught from a book, it comes with practise.

[GiMac]

Spot on. Being able to put your opponent on a hand is just about the most important part of the game, imho.