Blind Structure, specifically antes...

[RioRodent]

Whilst I have always been a supporter of incuding antes in the blind structure for the live national champs, I have to say I"m a bit dissappointed with new structure.  :"(  (I"m embarrassed to say I"ve only just looked at the structure!!  )

Going from 150/300 to 25/200/400 means halving the effective stack sizes at a stroke... remember the campaign to introduce 150/300, for exactly this reason?

Some guesstimate calculations to illustrate the point...

ave. chips appx 10.5k (assuming 5 alternates, followed by 10 eliminations)

@ 150/300 - total/round = 450 - M = 23.33
@ 25/200/400 - total/round = 850 - M = 12.35

[coprey]

Have to agree. Dont the blinds normally remain as they were when the antes come in. Then at the next level they continue to go up as normal?

[WarBwastardo]

This is the structure they use at DTD, but their games generally have to finish in one day.  Since we have the luxury of two days can we not have 150/300 level and then 25/150/300?  Such a big jump is effectively the same as we were without antes but missing out the 150/300 altogether and going from 100/200 to 200/400.  I think.

[RioRodent]

This is the structure they use at DTD, but their games generally have to finish in one day.  Since we have the luxury of two days can we not have 150/300 level and then 25/150/300?  Such a big jump is effectively the same as we were without antes but missing out the 150/300 altogether and going from 100/200 to 200/400.  I think.

Is this a thinly veiled, "I"ve made lev 6 of a DTD tourney" post?

[AMRN]

I agree - you gotta repeat the previous level when introducing the antes, or the jump is horrible and will take so many people from reasonably stacked to short stacked without touching a card.

Also, I note that the antes are almost always running at 1/8th of the SB....  looking at some other big tournies (was looking specifically at Aussie Millions) the SB wanders anywhere from 1/6th to 1/4th of the SB - this means the pot is so much juicier before the action starts, and obviously makes for much looser play and more steal attempts.  Running antes at 1/8th of SB will decrease that steal value - an 8 seat table will only have equivalent of 1 SB added to the pot by antes..... which means not much difference between having antes and not having antes.  IMO

[WarBwastardo]

This is the structure they use at DTD, but their games generally have to finish in one day.  Since we have the luxury of two days can we not have 150/300 level and then 25/150/300?  Such a big jump is effectively the same as we were without antes but missing out the 150/300 altogether and going from 100/200 to 200/400.  I think.

Is this a thinly veiled, "I"ve made lev 6 of a DTD tourney" post?

No but since you mention it I have made it to level 21  

[Swinebag]

I"m with you Alan. I hadn"t looked at the structure closely either; I was just euphoric at the introduction of antes and left it at that.

However the jump from 150/300 to 200/400/25 is a bit steep and I agree it should move to 150/300/25

In defence though the jump from 200/400/25 to 300/600/25 is seamless in its smoothness

[APAT]

You do realise this is effectively the GUKPT main event structure, with 45 minute levels as opposed to 60 minute?  I think some people need to take a quick reality check.  At the moment it feels as if the added 5 minutes per level and the added 500 / 1000 level will take play later than it has ever been before on day one, and you"d like to add a further level in?

[George2Loose]

This is the most standard structure you will find anywhere. No one keeps the same level when the ante"s get introduced- not even online.

The sturucture is fine!

[WarBwastardo]

This is the most standard structure you will find anywhere. No one keeps the same level when the ante"s get introduced- not even online.

The sturucture is fine!

WSOP have 100/200 then 25/100/200 don"t they?

[APAT]

One of the key objectives of developing the structure in this way is to prepare players for stepping up to the GUKPT.  Lots of members will qualify for GUKPT Main, Champion of Champions or Grand Final Events through winning APAT titles this year and it is an added benefit that they have some experience of these structures, prior to sitting down at those events.

I"ve lost count of how many days the WSOP Main Event takes, but I"m pretty sure they don"t have an objective to fit it in over a Saturday and Sunday, while getting everyone home at a reasonable hour for work on Monday.  A joke obviously, but I don"t think we can compare the WSOP and APAT structures.

[WarBwastardo]

One of the key objectives of developing the structure in this way is to prepare players for stepping up to the GUKPT.  Lots of members will qualify for GUKPT Main, Champion of Champions or Grand Final Events through winning APAT titles this year and it is an added benefit that they have some experience of these structures, prior to sitting down at those events.

I"ve lost count of how many days the WSOP Main Event takes, but I"m pretty sure they don"t have an objective to fit it in over a Saturday and Sunday, while getting everyone home at a reasonable hour for work on Monday.  A joke obviously, but I don"t think we can compare the WSOP and APAT structures.

Fair enough, but I think the $1,500 WSOP events use the structure I mentioned which are all 2 day events no?.  I wasn"t referring to the main event.

[MAIR]

If we are going to play the big games eg GUKPT, we need to get used to these kind of structures.

I very much doubt after 3 hr 45 min of play the av stack will be $10.5k tbh, I could be wrong but at the Scottish National, during level 5 the Av stack was $11.5k and we are talking about a Level 6 change here to bring in the antes.

As ever, Des & the team will be monitoring the first Live National to see how the structure works out and are always quick to make any changes they deem necessary.

Lets just see how Walsall goes and take it from there.

[RioRodent]

One of the key objectives of developing the structure in this way is to prepare players for stepping up to the GUKPT.  Lots of members will qualify for GUKPT Main, Champion of Champions or Grand Final Events through winning APAT titles this year and it is an added benefit that they have some experience of these structures, prior to sitting down at those events.

I"ve lost count of how many days the WSOP Main Event takes, but I"m pretty sure they don"t have an objective to fit it in over a Saturday and Sunday, while getting everyone home at a reasonable hour for work on Monday.  A joke obviously, but I don"t think we can compare the WSOP and APAT structures.

The WSOP ME has 8000 - 10000 players and 120 min levels... so no probably not a good comparison.

Surely a simple compromise would be 40 min levels... allowing one extra level / every 8 levels.

[RioRodent]

I agree - you gotta repeat the previous level when introducing the antes, or the jump is horrible and will take so many people from reasonably stacked to short stacked without touching a card.

Also, I note that the antes are almost always running at 1/8th of the SB....  looking at some other big tournies (was looking specifically at Aussie Millions) the SB wanders anywhere from 1/6th to 1/4th of the SB - this means the pot is so much juicier before the action starts, and obviously makes for much looser play and more steal attempts.  Running antes at 1/8th of SB will decrease that steal value - an 8 seat table will only have equivalent of 1 SB added to the pot by antes..... which means not much difference between having antes and not having antes.  IMO

Since making my original post I have given this more [some!] thought. I think that AMRN"s second point is actually more pertinent i.e. the small size of the ante as opposed to how it is introduced.

Because it so small, as little as 1/10th SB at some points, not repeating the previous level is not sooooo bad.

e.g.

WSOP structure - 100/200 [300] upto 25/100/200 [550] = 83% increase.
APAT structure - 150/300 [450] upto 25/200/400 [850] = 89% increase.

Still, no harm debating these issues, eh?  


("Why is the Ante so low?" thread to follow!!)