It seemed the right play, you'll tell me otherwise

[Chipaccrual]

3 1/2 hours into a $10 rebuy on Stars.  Average chipstack, just moved to this table.

135 players left, in the money.

Then this hand happens.

PokerStars Game #25190734919: Tournament #140556167, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (600/1200) - 2009/02/21 16:35:17 GMT [2009/02/21 11:35:17 ET]
Table "140556167 85" 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Chipaccrual (36500 in chips)
Seat 2: Mr-Slick82 (16637 in chips)
Seat 3: andyh20 (18925 in chips)
Seat 4: Marelo_! (52479 in chips)
Seat 5: sander3 (35068 in chips)
Seat 6: conejobrabo (55319 in chips)
Seat 7: Mathon1 (120109 in chips)
Seat 8: PIPIS7878 (56610 in chips)
Seat 9: SSMART_SHA (77121 in chips)
Chipaccrual: posts the ante 125
Mr-Slick82: posts the ante 125
andyh20: posts the ante 125
Marelo_!: posts the ante 125
sander3: posts the ante 125
conejobrabo: posts the ante 125
Mathon1: posts the ante 125
PIPIS7878: posts the ante 125
SSMART_SHA: posts the ante 125
andyh20: posts small blind 600
Marelo_!: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chipaccrual [ah qs]
Chipaccrual is connected
sander3: raises 2800 to 4000
conejobrabo: folds
Mathon1: folds
PIPIS7878: folds
SSMART_SHA: folds
Chipaccrual: raises 8000 to 12000
Mr-Slick82: folds
andyh20: folds
Marelo_!: folds
sander3: calls 8000
*** FLOP *** [ qc]
sander3: checks
Chipaccrual: bets 24375 and is all-in
sander3: calls 22943 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (1432) returned to Chipaccrual
*** TURN *** [ qc] [ ::]
*** RIVER *** [ qc ::] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sander3: shows [tc ac] (a flush, Ace high)
Chipaccrual: shows [ah qs] (two pair, Queens and Fours)
sander3 collected 72811 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 72811 | Rake 0
Board [ qc :: ]
Seat 1: Chipaccrual showed [ah qs] and lost with two pair, Queens and Fours
Seat 2: Mr-Slick82 (button) folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 3: andyh20 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Marelo_! (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: sander3 showed [tc ac] and won (72811) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: conejobrabo folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 7: Mathon1 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 8: PIPIS7878 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 9: SSMART_SHA folded before Flop (didn"t bet)


Questions to answer :-

1. Is sander3"s raise under the gun with  ac tc a good play ?
2. Is my reraise correct, or would a flat call have been the better move ?
3. When I do reraise, is sander3"s call a good play (he"s getting pot odds of 2.5-1) ?
4. Post flop, am I ever getting away from this ? (With hindsight, the all-in was aggressive)

Roll on tonights APAT game.  

[AMRN]

I don"t really like your re-raise preflop - considering his raise was UTG, and you have only just arrived at the table so don"t know the sorts of hands he is raising with, AQo wasn"t really ahead of the "normal" UTG raising range.

Post flop it"s just a horrible problem for you now. You"ve re-raised preflop and when you got a caller, you knew you needed to hit the flop big style, and TPTK is the least you can hope for.... there"s no way you can not play the hand now.

Personally, I think I would have folded preflop   (easy to say when I can see the cards)

I think his call of your re-raise is awful. He ought to realise that you wouldn"t be re-raising an UTG raiser with something that A10 is beating!!

[jbworldwide]

I"m no expert, but after what I have been reading recently here is my view on this hand

1. Yes - no point limping so nothing wrong with a raise
2. Yes - it helps you define the hand that your opponent has got, although if you are gonna chuck it all in on the flop, why not pre flop and put maximum pressure on your opponent (just a thought)
3. I would call here to see a flop as I know if i hit its a big pot to take down for 8000 more and I am playing for the win, although if I had played with you a bit I would have given it some thought, so this is definitely open to consideration
4. All in on a dangerous board like that I think is a good/bad move, good that if he missed you win the pot, bad that if he hits you burn all your chips. I personally might have stuck a feeler bet in and see what he did, if I got a flat call I would shut up shop for the turn and river if it was checked to me again, or if raised all in, I would lay it down. Of course if he missed the feeler bet would be enough to take the pot down.


just my opinion of course  

[LongshanksED]

personally i wouldnt play a10 suited or off from UTG - 9/10 gets you into trouble

i dont like the reraise, it is a standard play but if you miss the flop, continuation bet and get re raised all in its easy to get away from yet when you hit top pair top kicker its difficult from even with the possible made flush

yes i reckon his call is a good play surely down to odds - if you re raised all in pre flop you might have scared him off but you be putting yourself at great risk

3 to a flush i can get away from but only if i bet 1/3rd of the pot or so, you"d never know if he was bluffing if he then pushes all in but you"d still have a semi playable stack

[hi_am_chris]

UTG is the new button  

[Swinebag]

1. I dont like the open raise, but its not the worst play. At this stage of the tourney with the ratio of ante : SB being 1:5, it is worth raising with speculative hands to pick up the blinds and antes

2. Do not like your reraise here. You are pretty much committing yourself to the hand and AQo plays poorly v most UTG raisers ranges. I"d like to think I"d fold pre here but if I"m being honest, I"d call and see a flop.

3. Dont like his call here. Calling commits both of you to the hand and he needs to hit a miracle flop to win the hand most of the time. The 2.5 to 1 odds thing shouldn"t realy come into it as he"s really playing for all his chips. I"d write in my notes that this guy overplays marginals.

4. As played you cant get away from this. He just got lucky.

But in the long run you are a winner as he will now be convinced that ATs UTG is the nuts and will continue to overplay marginals. Whereas you, Leigh, will learn fom this hand and continue to pwn pokerstars tourneys

[Chipaccrual]

1. I dont like the open raise, but its not the worst play. At this stage of the tourney with the ratio of ante : SB being 1:5, it is worth raising with speculative hands to pick up the blinds and antes

2. Do not like your reraise here. You are pretty much committing yourself to the hand and AQo plays poorly v most UTG raisers ranges. I"d like to think I"d fold pre here but if I"m being honest, I"d call and see a flop.

3. Dont like his call here. Calling commits both of you to the hand and he needs to hit a miracle flop to win the hand most of the time. The 2.5 to 1 odds thing shouldn"t realy come into it as he"s really playing for all his chips. I"d write in my notes that this guy overplays marginals.

4. As played you cant get away from this. He just got lucky.

But in the long run you are a winner as he will now be convinced that ATs UTG is the nuts and will continue to overplay marginals. Whereas you, Leigh, will learn fom this hand and continue to pwn pokerstars tourneys

Cheers Rob,

How"s the skiing going ?

[mal666]

The only non standard part of this hand is the villains call of your 3bet.

[Swinebag]

Cheers Rob,

How"s the skiing going ?

Back in England now. Skiing was great but everything aches. I can barely click a mouse!

[deanp27]

everything you did was fine - nh

his play wasn"t that great but is to be totally expected with the standard you come up against in stars MTTs.

just a cooler

[Eck]

Forgetting that we know his hand now, and you still face an UTG raise which you chose to reraise.

If he jams the lot in what is your action?

Just wondering??

[Chipaccrual]

Forgetting that we know his hand now, and you still face an UTG raise which you chose to reraise.

If he jams the lot in what is your action?

Just wondering??

I"d guess I"m folding then.  I have been looking at how I could have played this hand and knowing what he has, how he may have played it.

1  Fold my AQ when he raises UTG.  Well that is one option.

2  Shove all-in.  I can"t see him calling that ?

3  Flat call and see the flop.

He"s still going to check, and I"ve still got top pair with top kicker.  I"m not going to want to see another card though, with the clubs out there.

What do I do then ?

[deanp27]

i"m not sure you should be 3bet/folding with a 30bb stack. If you are going to fold to a 4bet i would suggest not 3betting in the first place.

you could flat call and take it from there, it wouldn"t be that bad.

i wouldn"t 3bet AQ in this spot in (say) an APAT event where most of the players have respect for position and starting hands, but my experience in tournies like this says you can 3bet AQ here for value, but i suppose it depends upon your attitude to variance.

[bigredders]

dont see anything you did wrong there leigh, his play his horrible the raise from that position is terrible and his call is even worse. People take pot odds too literally sometimes. when calling a hand you need to put your apponent on a hand range and work out your chance of winning based on that range. he has to put you on a high ace/ a mid to high pair. I think if his hand wasnt suited he wouldn"t even be in the hand. What does he want to see apart from the flop he got?

you have to bet out on that flop, cant give him a free card

only thing i might change is just calling in position rather than raising, but dont mind the raise as your defining your hand.

i personally think floding is way too tight imo

[Swinebag]

i personally think folding is way too tight imo

Bear in mind that the raise has come from UTG (and we do not know yet that he is a spewer) what range do you put UTG on? Does AQo really play well against this range?