Author Topic: Trivial Fold?  (Read 7248 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Honeybadg

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3367
Trivial Fold?
« on: March 10, 2009, 21:32:42 PM »
$50k g"tee $50 re-buy

I have 9000 chips ... blinds are 60/120

UTG I hold KK ... I raise to 360

Early position flat calls. (10,000 chips)

Late position flat calls. (11,000 chips)

Flop is 789 (two spades)

I bet the pot 1260.

Early position goes all in for 10k

Late position calls for 11k.

I fold.

Correct?

What do my opponents hold?

Answers at the next break ... I am currently 52nd of 207 ... 40 paid.

L

Swinebag

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4033
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 21:46:19 PM »
easy fold yes

must be looking at a draw from the shover vs a made hand that put shover on a draw. Caller could be calling quite light here meaning you had the best hand??
Quote from: Chipaccrual
Rob, you are a genius.
Quote from: jacklevel06
You are a genius Rob  :D

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 21:54:57 PM »
Yep I would fold here too- u could easily be drawing dead to runner runner.

FWIW do u always pot the flop in this spot?
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

Honeybadg

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 22:01:35 PM »
... what does FWIW stand for?

I would normally bet the pot here ... find out where I am ... what might you do?

The ludicrous initial all in holds TT.

The caller 88 (my favourite hand!) ... for a made set which holds up.

L

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 22:06:51 PM »
FWIW= For What It"s Worth

Would u pot it with AK?

I may check and peel a turn card on that board but I wouldn"t bet the pot cos:

1) U can get the same info with a 3/4 pot bet

2) You"re telling the others what u have.

If only one shoves would u call?
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

Honeybadg

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 22:17:59 PM »
Normally ...

AK I would check ...

3/4 ... yes I might do that ... or some weird mystical 999 bet

If only the first player shoves - then I call (I think) could be a great trap ... but I expect not.

I am much more bothered about the late position caller ... what is he flat calling with ... big favourites ... 77,88,99 or the gone TT maybe lower pairs ... but I hate checking and giving free cards ...

Given the very high BB ratios ... do you have any time for raising more ... MIGHT chase away the 88 ... might chase everyone away ...

Very like getting KK or AA very early in deep stack tournaments ...

L

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 22:54:47 PM »
I actually raise less pre at this level lol

Make your raises standard- if you wanna 4* pre with KK you have to do the same with your weaker hands else people will know when u have a hand or not

Same with your c-bets- keep them standard else your giving away too much info about your hand
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

MAIR

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2009, 08:18:04 AM »
I would be 3 x BB raising utg.

With the 2 callers and a dangerous flop of 789 a smaller c-bet of, say, 3/4 of the pot as a feeler to see where I am.

With the 2 all ins I am folding, due to the possibility of one of them either already hitting the str8, a set or on a str8 or flush draw.

As George says, need to keep it pretty much standard on how you play weak and strong hands so that they don"t know what range of hands you are possibly raising or c-betting with.

Good fold anyhoo and how did you finish up?

Also, I was in a similar scenario with that flop in Walsall.

Both of us have approx 11k, him slightly more chips than I.

I have TJ on the BB, utg limps in, and I flat check.  Flop comes down 789 giving me the str8.  I check, he bets, i reraise over the top and then I cant recall exactly but I think he went all in there or he reraised again and I put the rest of my chips in.

He shows 77 for a set and I have the str8, 7 to J, turn comes an 8 and thats me out of the tournament.

Afterwards I gave it a great deal of thought, and maybe I shouldve just called his bet post flop rather than re-raising to see that turn card and then if the board hasnt paired, with only 1 card to go make an all in push, my thinking on this tho is there was no way he was folding his set.

What do you think on my play and what went down?  Should I have raised pre, would it have made any difference to the outcome of the hand?  Was I being over keen to call his all in?
Mary Kivlin

Honeybadg

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2009, 08:31:15 AM »
... I finished 53rd of 380 with 40 paid ...

600/1200 ante 120 ... I have c14000 chips ...

Chip Leader limps UTG

I got all in with QQ ... happy for everyone to fold ... but

Chip leader calls with AK (sigh) .. flop AKJ ... no help ...

Not trying to limp to $300 ... annoying but standard exit.

WALSALL HAND

I would have checked as you did and then went all in after his raise ... hard to see anything but all the chips going in here though ...

Had he managed to fold his made set massive credit to both parties ...

EYES WIDE SHUT - aka The FRUIT MACHINE.

No third podium in a row for me ... about 35th of 87 ... when QJs goes needlessly over the top of my TT with others to act ... but wins the race.

Night off tonight - maybe???

Looking forward to the Sunday league match.

Louis

MAIR

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3062
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2009, 08:35:07 AM »
Me too, should be a good weekend :)
Mary Kivlin

George2Loose

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1668
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2009, 10:19:57 AM »

I would be 3 x BB raising utg.

With the 2 callers and a dangerous flop of 789 a smaller c-bet of, say, 3/4 of the pot as a feeler to see where I am.

With the 2 all ins I am folding, due to the possibility of one of them either already hitting the str8, a set or on a str8 or flush draw.

As George says, need to keep it pretty much standard on how you play weak and strong hands so that they don"t know what range of hands you are possibly raising or c-betting with.

Good fold anyhoo and how did you finish up?

Also, I was in a similar scenario with that flop in Walsall.

Both of us have approx 11k, him slightly more chips than I.

I have TJ on the BB, utg limps in, and I flat check.  Flop comes down 789 giving me the str8.  I check, he bets, i reraise over the top and then I cant recall exactly but I think he went all in there or he reraised again and I put the rest of my chips in.

He shows 77 for a set and I have the str8, 7 to J, turn comes an 8 and thats me out of the tournament.

Afterwards I gave it a great deal of thought, and maybe I shouldve just called his bet post flop rather than re-raising to see that turn card and then if the board hasnt paired, with only 1 card to go make an all in push, my thinking on this tho is there was no way he was folding his set.

What do you think on my play and what went down?  Should I have raised pre, would it have made any difference to the outcome of the hand?  Was I being over keen to call his all in?


U did nothing wrong in this hand Mary- if you have Aces and are pretty sure someone has KK you want to get the money in pre. You can"t flat call- see if a King comes and fold the flop!

Ur just unlucky the board paired
Follow me on twitter:  gb2loose

Honeybadg

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3367
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 10:55:01 AM »
... post flop you are "only" 65/35 ahead if they have 77,88,99 ... so I think you have to give them a chance to fold ... (very unlikely I woud say) ... but give them a chance to ... by going all in ... not just re-raising for me.

L

Mikeyboy9361

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2281
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2009, 10:55:20 AM »
Re Louis hand, I think Mair"s summation is pretty spot on, and I would be following a similar line.
Re Mairs hand at Walsall, major cooler, again I would have been walking to the rail, and then thinking just the same as you Mair, re seeing another card, but realistically I think 95% of us would have done the same.
European Online Silver Medalist 2009
Member of the Leeds "Grand Final" Team
Scottish Amateur Championships Bronze Medalist 2013

deanp27

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2009, 11:15:40 AM »
don"t like pot betting at any stage, just put a normal 2/3rd - 3/4 bet in.

trouble is that flop has semi bluff written all over it and depending on player reads i may check here as i am badly OOP and it is prime for somebody to make a play or have a better hand than me as it is all over a cold-calling range. As played it is a fold.
Looking forward to making my first day 2

bigredders

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 593
Re: Trivial Fold?
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 12:12:35 PM »
agree with the pot betting...one of the worst bets you can make it just makes you look weak

everything else was standard