Can you fold here.

[Bodddders]

I dont normally post on here but this hand from last nights league is bugging me.

We are nearing the end of the 2nd level and I have been playing quite tight, the chip leader who got most of his chips when his flopped two pair hit a fullhouse on the river to beat flopped trips, has been aggresive since doubling up.

I"m dealt  kd kh on the button. The CL calls 40 UTG two more players limp and I make it 280 to go. CL calls and the other two fold.

Flop  js qc ::

CL leads out half the pot of 350. I raise to 800 and he calls.

Turn  ad

He puts me all-in.

Do you call or fold here and why.  All thoughts welcome and I will post the rest of the hand later.

Mike.

[kinboshi]

Need to know stack sizes really, but yes, you can fold.  Although you"re beating some of his range, one of his most likely holdings (without knowing the player) are  ac with another club.

Of course, if he"s a very loose player his range increases. 

[deanp27]

need stack sizes but you don"t beat alot right now

[Bodddders]

Sorry meant to put that in the original post. he had about 5.5K before the hand and I had 2.1K

[kinboshi]

I think I shove on the flop rather than raise to 800.

[kinboshi]

(I did go out during level 1 yesterday though )

[Mikeyboy9361]

I would say you are fairly committed to the pot. If you lay it down you have only 1000 left, and will be very short stacked. Having said that the blinds are still low, and you have time to fight back. He has probably hit the ace, but you say he has been aggressive and he has a wide range, so I would probably make a reluctant call.

[lukybugur]

I"m not sure I shove on the flop 100% of the time but that"d be a sensible play on such a draw-heavy board. It"s the worst Turn card you could get and one that puts you to the decision for all your Chips. Opp could have a Q in his hand, two clubs in which case the Turn has missed, or he sees the A as one of his Bluff-Outs.

If he"s made a straight I don"t think he"d play it this aggressively given that you"ve been the aggressor for most of the hand. If he"s hit trips on the flop and his shove is an attempt to get you off a drawing hand, you were obv beaten on the flop anyway and you"re prob destined to lose a stack of chips with your overpair. I"d call hoping that he"s now playing his Flush draw desperately.

[noble1]

before you posted stack sizes i would say fold there are way to many hands beating you.To any 1/2 decent player your actions/image pre and on the flop smell big pair so i"d be surprised if villain has just bluffed with TJ or QT or something weird like that.

After seeing you only had 2.1k pre and that you have put in 1/2 your stack by the turn,he is either really bad and played a flush draw in a spewy way or he has you definitely beat.
If you are going to raise nearly 1/2 of your stack on the flop [800] then you may as well put the whole lot in on the flop..

[Bodddders]

Ok thanks for the feedback, here"s what happened next and my thought process.

After a quick dwell (lets face it thats all the time you get on blue sq, one of my biggest gripes that you should be able to have more time for the difficult decisions) I decided to call. My thinking was that he had a busted flush draw and was trying to get me to fold the best hand with just one card to come.  The ad was obviously a scare card but thought he would have checked and got me to bet if he had hit.

I was right about the busted flush draw but not about the ace, as he showed  ac jc so that was that. I agree that maybe a push on the flop was the best way to go, but with his stack size i didn"t think he would fold for the extra 1000 chips anyhow.

Just to rub it in the river bought the  .

Any thoughts? (on mine or his play)

Mike

[kinboshi]

If I"m him, I shove on that flop.  If I"m you, I shove on that flop. 

[deanp27]

can"t believe it wasn"t shipped in on the flop

[noble1]

The   was obviously a scare card but thought he would have checked and got me to bet if he had hit.

your right it makes no sense even if you reason that he put you on top pair after your smallish re-raise[just about the only hand he is barely beating]. I"m not saying this is correct thinking by him or the best play [his all in is bizarre on the turn] as i would of put you on QQ KK or AA after your actions but all he see"s is his 2 pair [he is bad,note it lol lol]..You had already seen him get his chips in with 2 pair so i cannot see your logic as to why he would now bet with KJ or KQ,bet a weak flush draw or stone cold bluff with air on the turn after facing 2 re-raises.[and you put in nearly 1/2 your stack on the flop - as bizarre as it looks,you have to think your beat]
You got married to your hand and played it bad and his play leaves little to be desired

but with his stack size i didn"t think he would fold for the extra 1000 chips anyhow.

you had 1800 ish chips on the flop and put in 800 giving him gr8 odds to call and improve , if you had shipped it in it would of cost him 1450 to call - if he calls any flush or 1 pair hands you get your chips in good or racing..
For me you had 2 options with that draw heavy flop after his lead - call or ship it all in,you can"t fold on the flop... call is a option giving that the blinds are still small,but you need discipline to fold your power house 1 pair if a scare card comes on the turn or he leads big on the turn..

Do you have tendency to bust out early in the beginning levels with big pairs bodddders?

good post by the way, i agree he has played the turn weird but you rather set up yourself for it with a bad flop bet..