Shouldve been an easy fold

[LongshanksED]

live tourney £30 buy in

blinds 800/1600 i have 7k left after posting BB and 2 spots from final 10 (top 9 get paid) 6 handed table

3 limpers post in my BB im holding  ad

limpers all have me  well covered and going by their play all night they could be playing all kinds of suited connectors, face cards, ace rag or small pairs cards

so i just check it

flop

A 2 4 rainbow

sb checks, i check, other 2 check

3 turn

sb checks, i bet 1600, other 2 fold, sb calls

9 river
sb bets 3k into 9 k pot and i have 5 k left


dunno why as i kept telling myself to fold but i call and he shows 45o for the turned straight when i hit my 2 pair

he did say that if i bet the flop he was gonna put me all in with his gutshot as he had around 50k to my 7k




next orbit with blinds at 1k/2k i have 2.5k

UTG with aces - sb & bb call and bb hits runner runner for a 7 high flush (but obviously he"d  call with any 2 cards)

out 1 spot from final table - off the money


thinking the 2 pair shouldve been an easy fold but you dont win tourneys by folding all the way there

[KarmaDope]

Shove pre - you have 5bb and a suited ace. If not, shove flop, but as he"s said he"s calling/putting you all in anyway once he"s seen the flop, you"re screwed. You shove pre and he probably folds.

[deanp27]

shove pre, shove flop - just shove at some point

[noble1]

ok as said above with all the limpers and only 7bb left it is either shove or fold , if u fold then you have to shove within the next orbit or you"ll be way to short..[you are now really]...
When it comes to short stack play 8 to 15bb is my threshold i"m not a particularly fond of ace rag to shove into limpers [with large stacks and the ranges you describe]this sort of hand i"d only shove if i am the 1st into the pot then i can put the decision on others.
Try not to drop this low even with the final table in sight it is the natural reaction by a lot of players to tighten up a little to much in these stages..
What i tend to do if i am in this situation is -
1 Be the 1st all in to enter the pot. [8 to 15bb depends on the size of blinds and antes]
2 If i am not blessed with the best of starting hands then i"ll push with hands like T9 98 86 75 etc type hands off suit or suited against 2 higher over cards then i have 2 live cards and a chance of winning ranging on avg 35 to 40% [much better than being dominated]
3 Sometimes i will gamble and call if 2/3 players are all in the hope of a triple up etc.

Some other suggestions before you get to the short stack stage -
When you are in the 15 to 20bb area and a loose stack raises then shove all in with any 2..try to this in the button,cut off or hi jack positions so that are not to many left to act behind you..
Do some stop + go"s or go+go"s [good in late stages when blinds + antes are high ,reraise when oop to the raiser to a size so that if called the pot will be big enough so that when u shove all in it is not a gross over bet]
1000/2000 antes 200 9 players at table 4800 in the pot
bb hero  38000
cut off 54,000 raises to 5000
hero re-raises to 12000
cut off calls [pot now 28,800] Hero has 26,000 behind which he shoves as 1st to act on the flop....

Try limp re-raises or squeeze plays 3 bet etc  ... try to add all these sort of plays to your mid stage late stage repertoire and try to suss out who is tight and who is loose etc are they capable of folding pre/post-flop are they to your left or right..can you steal the blinds 2 out of 3 orbits on avg etc start watching for player tendencies/patterns....

hope this helps you look at areas of your mid to late stage strategy
regards
noble

[LongshanksED]

couple of points

once im at the 10bb stage its push of fold for me - problem is where i play live there is alot of weak players that will play limp weak hands and will normally call any raise - even all ins so i tend to play tight - maybe too tight

one example from early in the tourney blinds 50/100
2 players limped from UTG and Button both with AK suited and checked it down with a K high flop but the BB flopped a set with his pocket jacks

you never really know what range of hands you can put players on

also

a few hands 2 guys (they where friends) on my BB always played each other no matter what there cards - 1 open raised 3BB, player b the SB re raised and i saw my pocket 6"s and and mucked them, his mate called only for a 6 to come on the flop

their holdings player a had 79 suited and the other (player b in sb) had 98off

2 hands later same 2 players raising and re raising - im button and folded - flop is 587 - player a checks b bets 800 into 8600 pot, player b calls - everyone is talking hand ranges and i put player b on a face pair and player a on straight draw now
turn is K
player a checks player b goes all in for 3k and b calls with pocket 4"s for his 2k - player A had pocket kings and the turn is a 6

now many could argue that this i poker - and it is to an extent but there is so much silly stuff goes on that sitting tight and holding on is a good strategy at these tourneys



1 other problem - when i was knocked out with pocket aces - the SB matched my 2.5k bet when the blinds were 1k/2k

surely only the BB could call my extar 500 bet if everyone else folded - i thought the SB would"ve ahd to put 4k in to double the blind?

i spoke to my mate today who was on the BB to knock me out with his runners flush and had the SB put in 4k he would"ve still matched the bet with 37o anyway to collude in knocking me out

[noble1]

wowser where are these played , sounds like fun , do they play cash?

a few hands 2 guys (they where friends) on my BB always played each other no matter what there cards - 1 open raised 3BB, player b the SB re raised and i saw my pocket 6"s and and mucked them, his mate called only for a 6 to come on the flop

if you know that there tendency is to over play hands like these and re-raise with them, then don"t raise 66 on the button if you are going to fold to a re-raise.Limp on the button [if stack is deep enough] and if they raise you can call and see the flop cheaper whilst also having position.
If you are a short stack then shove pre in these type of scenarios.

2 hands later same 2 players raising and re raising - im button and folded - flop is 587 - player a checks b bets 800 into 8600 pot, player b calls - everyone is talking hand ranges and i put player b on a face pair and player a on straight draw now
turn is K
player a checks player b goes all in for 3k and b calls with pocket 4"s for his 2k - player A had pocket kings and the turn is a 6

Your A"s + B"s are a little muddled but i get the idea , this is just an example of poor play...Just remember if you get Kings and someone re-raises you , check how many chips you have behind , if you are committed then re-raise all in pre.
Look at how much you said a+b had behind to bet post flop, does this seem right to you?

1 other problem - when i was knocked out with pocket aces - the SB matched my 2.5k bet when the blinds were 1k/2k

surely only the BB could call my extar 500 bet if everyone else folded - i thought the SB would"ve ahd to put 4k in to double the blind?

You let your stack go to low , the sb and bb do nothing wrong here...


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