playing position....

[noble1]

level 50/100  all stacks involved around 3000
Guy raises in MP to 250. [notes on him as std Tag]
I call on button with 9s4s.
The BB calls and joins the fun.
Flop comes Ks5c3h.
BB checks MP bets 350 I call BB folds.
Turn .
MP checks - how would you proceed here?

cheers...
noble

[mal666]

650

[AMRN]

i would bet 75%-100% of the pot, and fold to any re-raise. If he calls then checks the turn, I would probably take the same line after the turn.  May be spewy, but gonna take the pot a ton of the time.

[bigredders]

i would bet 75%-100% of the pot, and fold to any re-raise. If he calls then checks the turn, I would probably take the same line after the turn.  May be spewy, but gonna take the pot a ton of the time.

we are already on the turn steve! what mal said...600-700 bet, his check says he has given up after his c bet

[noble1]

thx guys,the games are tougher now and my std move/line would be to lead these spots as well..
The crafty TAGS if they have say a pair like QQ JJ TT etc even there Ace J/Q hands are less reluctant to fold these days [its getting harder to find enough scared opponents anymore  ]
But in this spot i find it very common now that QQ JJ etc will snap call my turn bluff and i cannot continue on the river as they shove there remaining stack,some even now check raise all in the turn..
So my line now is to check behind on the turn, and when/if he value bets his 2 jacks etc etc on the river [mostly they throw out a blocker], i instantly shove, and I mean instantly..(unless the river is a 6, then i min raise instead ).
If they check the river i tend to bet 1/2 pot or just over and if they call that i still have enough back for a double up to be back where i started..

Anyone strongly disagree with this line?

[noble1]

same situation but slightly deeper stacked,anyone think a river bet may of took it?

PokerStars Game #27018054443: Tournament #200904223, $10000+$300 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (25/50) - 2009/04/12 16:47:50 ET
Table "200904223 49" 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: CASINOICE (10400 in chips)
Seat 3: jornxx (9825 in chips)
Seat 4: Big_Nemo (10125 in chips)
Seat 5: area23JC (10725 in chips)
Seat 6: actaml (10225 in chips)
Seat 7: Goldenboys (9300 in chips)
Seat 8: I"am_Sound (9025 in chips)
Seat 9: caio_pimenta (10375 in chips)
Big_Nemo: posts small blind 25
area23JC: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
actaml: folds
Goldenboys: folds
I"am_Sound: folds
caio_pimenta: folds
CASINOICE: folds
jornxx: folds
Big_Nemo: raises 150 to 200
area23JC: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Big_Nemo: bets 300
area23JC: calls 300
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Big_Nemo: checks
area23JC: bets 550
Big_Nemo: calls 550
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Big_Nemo: checks
area23JC: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Big_Nemo: shows [ ] (a pair of Jacks)
area23JC: mucks hand
Big_Nemo collected 2100 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2100 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: CASINOICE folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 3: jornxx (button) folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 4: Big_Nemo (small blind) showed [ ] and won (2100) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 5: area23JC (big blind) mucked [ Th]
Seat 6: actaml folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 7: Goldenboys folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 8: I"am_Sound folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 9: caio_pimenta folded before Flop (didn"t bet)

[tonyj444]

Seems pretty unlikely for a river bet to take this down.  BigNemo surely has to assume that most (if not all) hands that are ahead of his JJ on that flop will raise due to the scary board.  The turn and river dont connect with anything (other than some unlikely floating hands 22/33/45) so a big percentage of the time BigNemo has to assume he is still good.

I"m quite surprised that area23JC hasn"t raised this flop though.  He has a big hand and plenty of fold equity. His flat on this flop essentially means he either has to hit his draw or hope that BigNemo has overs and gives up on the turn.  Thoughts?

[mal666]

thx guys,the games are tougher now and my std move/line would be to lead these spots as well..
The crafty TAGS if they have say a pair like QQ JJ TT etc even there Ace J/Q hands are less reluctant to fold these days [its getting harder to find enough scared opponents anymore  ]
But in this spot i find it very common now that QQ JJ etc will snap call my turn bluff and i cannot continue on the river as they shove there remaining stack,some even now check raise all in the turn..
So my line now is to check behind on the turn, and when/if he value bets his 2 jacks etc etc on the river [mostly they throw out a blocker], i instantly shove, and I mean instantly..(unless the river is a 6, then i min raise instead ).
If they check the river i tend to bet 1/2 pot or just over and if they call that i still have enough back for a double up to be back where i started..

Anyone strongly disagree with this line?

Default is c/call river, the blocker is dead, too exploitable.

[Mikeyboy9361]

I don"t think a river bet would have got Nemo off his hand, he has already check called, and is just trying to control the pot, but I think he is pretty sure he is ahead. I am sure he is putting the other guy on a draw, and when the river comes down as it has, he still thinks he is ahead, and would in my opinion have called a bet on the river.

[noble1]

now put a King on the flop same pattern of play on the flop but check turn [JC Tran] bet river , who thinks oop villain fancies his Jacks now?  

[Mikeyboy9361]

Now he isn"t as sure! And may well fold to a decent sized river bet, not sure I would, actually it would depend on what mood I was in!!

[noble1]

Now he isn"t as sure! And may well fold to a decent sized river bet, not sure I would, actually it would depend on what mood I was in!!

lol now u met get me thinking about a psychology thread and ways that its applied.......  lmao  ....... oh before i forget..FA cup !!!!


Come on you Toffees...whoop whoop whoop

[noble1]

thx guys,the games are tougher now and my std move/line would be to lead these spots as well..
The crafty TAGS if they have say a pair like QQ JJ TT etc even there Ace J/Q hands are less reluctant to fold these days [its getting harder to find enough scared opponents anymore  ]
But in this spot i find it very common now that QQ JJ etc will snap call my turn bluff and i cannot continue on the river as they shove there remaining stack,some even now check raise all in the turn..
So my line now is to check behind on the turn, and when/if he value bets his 2 jacks etc etc on the river [mostly they throw out a blocker], i instantly shove, and I mean instantly..(unless the river is a 6, then i min raise instead ).
If they check the river i tend to bet 1/2 pot or just over and if they call that i still have enough back for a double up to be back where i started..

Anyone strongly disagree with this line?

Default is c/call river, the blocker is dead, too exploitable.

the blocker bet is still thriving,if they check river in view to call , what if we go all in?

[mal666]

thx guys,the games are tougher now and my std move/line would be to lead these spots as well..
The crafty TAGS if they have say a pair like QQ JJ TT etc even there Ace J/Q hands are less reluctant to fold these days [its getting harder to find enough scared opponents anymore  ]
But in this spot i find it very common now that QQ JJ etc will snap call my turn bluff and i cannot continue on the river as they shove there remaining stack,some even now check raise all in the turn..
So my line now is to check behind on the turn, and when/if he value bets his 2 jacks etc etc on the river [mostly they throw out a blocker], i instantly shove, and I mean instantly..(unless the river is a 6, then i min raise instead ).
If they check the river i tend to bet 1/2 pot or just over and if they call that i still have enough back for a double up to be back where i started..

Anyone strongly disagree with this line?

Default is c/call river, the blocker is dead, too exploitable.

the blocker bet is still thriving,if they check river in view to call , what if we go all in?

Then you get soul pwned, gg.

[noble1]

Default is c/call river, the blocker is dead, too exploitable.

i agree that if you use certain lines of play to much then players will exploit it if you do not adjust to them adjusting..
you only become exploitable if you do not adjust to there new strategy of trying to exploit you....
the best to exploit are weak bad players or non thinking nits imo [mainly low buy ins or early stages of a sunday mtt for example] .... Exploiting your own image is commonly used as is taking advantage of a opponents pattern of play..One key to successful poker is to create a poker table image and to integrate different playing styles with the ability to become flexible based from the way your opponents perceive your image.This will keep your opponents off the track and if the more they are unable to perceive you switching poker table image correctly the more they will make mistakes and this translates to winning there chips..
sorry i just hate this common view in a lot of forums that such and such is ""exploitable"" imo that is complete tosh as long as the player can re-adjust everything can be swung the other way round and the chump who thinks he is exploiting some1 ends up being the one exploited because he did not realize that his target had adjusted in anticipation of him trying to exploit him..