bad move at wrong time or standard??

[Waz1892]

LIVE DTD, AVG 8K STACK.  39 PLAYERS LEFT TOP 12 GET PAID.  BLINDS 300/600, ante 100.

I"M IN BB, with 10.4k after BB. 
1 MID POS RAISE TO 1600.(has me covered)   I CALL.  kc ( I had around 3 hands ago, pushed him off a big hand, when semi bluffing)

FLOP -    

I bet 2400.  he thinks for a reasonable time and calls.

TURN -  th

i push for final 7k, with 21 outs (9 clubs, 3 9"s, 3 kings, 3 tens, 3 sixes??)

he calls again after a while..blank river ..he had .. ad tc

i believe my image at table to be tight, but a little loose in the last 2or 3 hands to thosse paying attention!

views most welcome..

[Chipaccrual]

I"m confused.  

Are you sure you have the cards right ?

[Waz1892]

I"m confused.  

Are you sure you have the cards right ?

sorry..changed flop cards...5 instead on 6.. sorry.. never any good at these things!!

[lukybugur]

With 3,900 in the pot, I would shove on the flop. If you shove and take it down here, add 25% to your stack and it"s a good job done. If he has an overpair, cross your fingers that he makes the loose call with a 50/50 praying it"s gonna hold.

Again, prob best to post this without the end result first and get more "in the moment" answers.

[hi_am_chris]

If he likes to c bet i dont mind checking the flop to him and then putting him to a decision there and then as you have most equity on the flop rather than the turn

[Swinebag]

With an M of around 5 you are in push/fold mode. K9s should be in the muck preflop. Not many preflop raisers are folding here to a shove.

As played, I"d shove the flop. Its a great flop for your hand but you still only have K high. I dont mind your line after the flop as you weren"t folding from then on? Were you betting for value here? But when you shove the turn you are definitely getting called as you are pot committed, so getting them in on the flop would give you more chance of winning the pot without a made hand.

[lukybugur]

... K9s should be in the muck preflop

From BB, it"s only 1k more into a 2.9k pot. MP"s raise is pi$$ poor IMO.

[mal666]

... K9s should be in the muck preflop

From BB, it"s only 1k more into a 2.9k pot. MP"s raise is pi$$ poor IMO.

nah, push or fold pre. fold

[lukybugur]

The Stop and Go move works well here which is what the 1k call PF sets him up for.

[deanp27]

i probably fold preflop. as played I CRAI on the flop rather than lead

[Waz1892]

... K9s should be in the muck preflop

From BB, it"s only 1k more into a 2.9k pot. MP"s raise is pi$$ poor IMO.

nah, push or fold pre. fold

would find it hard to do either..only 1k more with 9.4k behind..and to push 10k on k9s??..would find this even hard

not sure i worked out the M to be 5 either??

is really nothing i did correct??....OMG!! i was pleased-ish with what i as doing!

[noble1]

personally i would not call + play this hand oop at this sort of stack size..
For me i"d have 3 options
1. fold
2. all in steal - 17bb , he needs a bloody good hand to call [good move if you think villain is capable of folding and/or is raising light] only tend to do this when antes have kicked in
3. do a go+go - re-raise to 4000 [because i tend to vary my rr amount from 2.5x to 3.5x] if he calls the extra 2400 because you are 1st to act and the pot is now 9800 [doing this quick as its tea time]  now you have 7400 back you shove it in any flop unless you flop a monster then you"d check   the beauty of this is your opponent will not connect 2in3 and your given him around 1.3 to 1 to call [not good equity for him]

[AMRN]

would like to think I wouldn"t play K9 against a preflop raise, but with his pithy raise you"re kinda priced in. With the draws all over the flop, I"m checking here hoping he"ll make a c-bet, then re-raising all in with the draw.

[Swinebag]

A 2.5 BB raise is pretty standard at this stage of the tourney, so doesn"t neccessarily represent weakness. You are getting good odds to play the hand OOP, but this isn"t really a pot odds decision. It costs too much of your stack and most of the time you are not going to connect well with the flop.

As for the M of "about 5" that I quoted. Assuming you are 8 handed here. blind + antes = 900 + 800 = 1700. This divides into your stack of 10.4K, 6.1 times. So its an M of 6, so its still push/fold mode. I suppose calling with the aim of shoving (stop and go) is good.

What would you have done if you had missed/not connected with the flop?

[noble1]

A 2.5 BB raise is pretty standard at this stage of the tourney, so doesn"t neccessarily represent weakness. You are getting good odds to play the hand OOP, but this isn"t really a pot odds decision. It costs too much of your stack and most of the time you are not going to connect well with the flop.

As for the M of "about 5" that I quoted. Assuming you are 8 handed here. blind + antes = 900 + 800 = 1700. This divides into your stack of 10.4K, 6.1 times. So its an M of 6, so its still push/fold mode. I suppose calling with the aim of shoving (stop and go) is good.

What would you have done if you had missed/not connected with the flop?

nice points rob , i was going to comment after finishing my chinese takeaway on why the raise sizes are best lowered when the blinds are high/big in relation to stack sizes.. most decent mtt players adopt this strategy of 2.2x to 2.8x raise sizes now..although if your table is full of inexperienced players who call to much and dont seem aware of what of there stack size or others means in terms of play then by all means raise more than std..

total gambler has a Daniel Negreanu article which explains some of these concepts [not all,but is a nice read]
http://www.totalgambler.com/pokerlife/pokerfeatures/8674/daniel_negreanus_small_ball_masterclass.html

oh and well done John Higgins - gr8 snooker player